And a One, And a Two
Essay28 total reviews
Comment from I am Cat
Mikey,
I'm sorry, I tucked this away from safe keeping in my bookcase, I had forgotten all about NOT reviewing it yet! lol
Sorry about that.
When I first read it, I knew it was awesome, and it IS... reading it again, yea... it is.
This is the single most amazing explanation about meter I've ever read. Damn, Mikey, I wish I had read it years ago. lol
some thoughts:
Terms like iambic pentameter, trochaic tetrameter, anapestic pause for heptameter with a twist of headless trimester sounded suspiciously evil to me.
(I laughed out loud at this)
These people were cultists[ ],( )for sure, and I was the virgin to be sacrificed to the poetry goddess, nude and innocent
(some spacing trouble in this sentence above, having to do with the comma) ;)
Are people laughing at you? Tell them to join in or get lost.
(I loved this!)
Anyway, you know it's awesome, and thanks for not getting upset with me for forgetting... also, thanks for reminding me... I forget a lot nowadays. :(
Well done
Cat
reply by the author on 23-May-2016
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Mikey,
I'm sorry, I tucked this away from safe keeping in my bookcase, I had forgotten all about NOT reviewing it yet! lol
Sorry about that.
When I first read it, I knew it was awesome, and it IS... reading it again, yea... it is.
This is the single most amazing explanation about meter I've ever read. Damn, Mikey, I wish I had read it years ago. lol
some thoughts:
Terms like iambic pentameter, trochaic tetrameter, anapestic pause for heptameter with a twist of headless trimester sounded suspiciously evil to me.
(I laughed out loud at this)
These people were cultists[ ],( )for sure, and I was the virgin to be sacrificed to the poetry goddess, nude and innocent
(some spacing trouble in this sentence above, having to do with the comma) ;)
Are people laughing at you? Tell them to join in or get lost.
(I loved this!)
Anyway, you know it's awesome, and thanks for not getting upset with me for forgetting... also, thanks for reminding me... I forget a lot nowadays. :(
Well done
Cat
Comment Written 23-May-2016
reply by the author on 23-May-2016
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You are toooooo sweet. I'm blushing for even mentioning this. I WAS kidding ya now. But I am so pleased you enjoyed this. I wish we did have some kind of library center type thing with all of these cool articles about the craft. Maybe we can organize something. It would be cool to have it catalogued with an index for people to look things up etc. I was thinking it could be a way to expand Poetry Dances and make it worth something. I know, I think too much. Hey, check out the new forum site, Challenges. Poetry Potlatch has a home. LOL mikey
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I think that's a great idea... And I just posted there! Lol
Well done!
Comment from Robert Louis Fox
Mike, you express your essay very well. Your premise is concise and your supporting elements are clear. Your explanation evolves into a summary that brings the ideas together in an understandable explanation of poetic meter.
I'd like to say that the musical comparison is excellent--except for in music it's: ONE and TWO and THREE and FOUR and... There's always that back beat. And it's the same with iambs, except the iamb has a front beat. An iambic foot has one beat with 2 accents, unstressed and STRESSED: ta TUM (like classical music), but in poetry there are substitutions for the basic iamb, like: TUM ta (Trochee) like Rock and Country, ta ta (Pyrrhic) like New Wave, or TUM TUM (Spondee) like native American drumming.
The technical term for measuring all this is: Accentual-Syllabic Meter. What it means in poetic terms is that a single beat can have up to three accents or syllables. Take your pentametric example: the RAIN (iamb) in SPAIN (iamb) falls MAIN (iamb) ly IN (iamb) the PLAIN. The 'IN' of this example might normally be unstressed, but in this verse it gets 'promoted'--something for another essay. Anyway, this line from My Fair Lady is perfect example of iambic pentameter: it has 5 beats with 10 syllables. A musical comparison would be: one AND two AND three AND four AND five AND. It's also a perfect example of when to clap if you're listening to the Blues.
So iambic pentameter has 5 beats, but has 10 unstressed and stressed accents. While an iambic foot has two accents, there are two types that have three accents: an Anapest: ta ta TUM (like a Polka); and a Bacchic: ta TUM TUM (like a Waltz).
What I love is a pentametric example like this: Going uphill the road is descending as well. The accentual-syllabic metering is measured: GOing (trochee) UP HILL (spondee) the ROAD (iamb) is desCEND (anapest) ing as WELL (anapest). It's still 5 beats (pentameter), but it's got 12 syllables (6 stressed and 6 unstressed). The musical comparison is: | ONE and | TWO AND | three AND | four and A | five and A |. And it sounds like Cajun music.
No wonder I get confused trying to review poetry. Right? Maybe next we can discuss ADVANCE and DRAG?
Good work, Mike. Glad you brought this up. Best regards, BobFox
reply by the author on 15-Feb-2016
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Mike, you express your essay very well. Your premise is concise and your supporting elements are clear. Your explanation evolves into a summary that brings the ideas together in an understandable explanation of poetic meter.
I'd like to say that the musical comparison is excellent--except for in music it's: ONE and TWO and THREE and FOUR and... There's always that back beat. And it's the same with iambs, except the iamb has a front beat. An iambic foot has one beat with 2 accents, unstressed and STRESSED: ta TUM (like classical music), but in poetry there are substitutions for the basic iamb, like: TUM ta (Trochee) like Rock and Country, ta ta (Pyrrhic) like New Wave, or TUM TUM (Spondee) like native American drumming.
The technical term for measuring all this is: Accentual-Syllabic Meter. What it means in poetic terms is that a single beat can have up to three accents or syllables. Take your pentametric example: the RAIN (iamb) in SPAIN (iamb) falls MAIN (iamb) ly IN (iamb) the PLAIN. The 'IN' of this example might normally be unstressed, but in this verse it gets 'promoted'--something for another essay. Anyway, this line from My Fair Lady is perfect example of iambic pentameter: it has 5 beats with 10 syllables. A musical comparison would be: one AND two AND three AND four AND five AND. It's also a perfect example of when to clap if you're listening to the Blues.
So iambic pentameter has 5 beats, but has 10 unstressed and stressed accents. While an iambic foot has two accents, there are two types that have three accents: an Anapest: ta ta TUM (like a Polka); and a Bacchic: ta TUM TUM (like a Waltz).
What I love is a pentametric example like this: Going uphill the road is descending as well. The accentual-syllabic metering is measured: GOing (trochee) UP HILL (spondee) the ROAD (iamb) is desCEND (anapest) ing as WELL (anapest). It's still 5 beats (pentameter), but it's got 12 syllables (6 stressed and 6 unstressed). The musical comparison is: | ONE and | TWO AND | three AND | four and A | five and A |. And it sounds like Cajun music.
No wonder I get confused trying to review poetry. Right? Maybe next we can discuss ADVANCE and DRAG?
Good work, Mike. Glad you brought this up. Best regards, BobFox
Comment Written 15-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 15-Feb-2016
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Hey Bob, this was an awesome and entertaining response. I think you could write a bang up follow up to my remedial piece. An advanced version of the same thing. This all made great sense to me and clarified some things as well. I'm somewhat intermediate when it comes to meter. I get the basic concept and I'm trying to expand on it in my work. Yes, you are correct concerning "one and, two and" etc. I went for the entertainment value. :)) I think I got away with it. Ha! Just a super response, Thanks a million. mike
Comment from seaglass
You have done a very good job explaining this. I wish I could promise to remember it, bit I can hardly remember what day it is. I got a giggle out of you referring to the port high-hats as a strange poetry cult. I have to stop practicing now..
Slapping my knees is causing them to bruise.
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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You have done a very good job explaining this. I wish I could promise to remember it, bit I can hardly remember what day it is. I got a giggle out of you referring to the port high-hats as a strange poetry cult. I have to stop practicing now..
Slapping my knees is causing them to bruise.
Comment Written 14-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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It's Sunday, I think ... yeah, church, SUNDAY!
Cool, I'm really pleased with this. I'm so glad it helped. This is how I finally got a handle on it. Print it out and frame it above the fireplace. :)) A real conversation piece.
Thanks a million for the awesome review. WOW. mike
Comment from l.raven
Hi Michael, slow down you...for some of us old timers...it's like having Alzheimer's....we may know it one minute...and the next ....Bam...it's gone...in my last poem I had to use iambic words...ok...thank God for Cat and Anabella...if the way I first wrote it had stayed out there...OMG...sense...I have gone to google and read a bit about it...but it's always that first poem...a hit or a miss...LOL...no truly your poem explains it well...you can understand it...so I thank you...very well written sweetie...read it a couple times so it would stay...LOL...love Linda xxoo luff
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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Hi Michael, slow down you...for some of us old timers...it's like having Alzheimer's....we may know it one minute...and the next ....Bam...it's gone...in my last poem I had to use iambic words...ok...thank God for Cat and Anabella...if the way I first wrote it had stayed out there...OMG...sense...I have gone to google and read a bit about it...but it's always that first poem...a hit or a miss...LOL...no truly your poem explains it well...you can understand it...so I thank you...very well written sweetie...read it a couple times so it would stay...LOL...love Linda xxoo luff
Comment Written 14-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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Thanks fo much, Linda. Sometimes these guys get so technical there's no telling WHAT they're talking about. So, yeah, I thought I'd see if I could put it in some kind of English. :))
I'm pleased if it helped a bit. Thanks a million. mike
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you are soooooooo welcome sweetie...and it helped a lot...your welcome a million...xxoo Linda
Comment from Sasha
Great work with this. It actually made sense. I doubt I will ever write a poem (the fear factor has really taken over) but will help me understand what I am reading much better as well as those complicated explanations in the author's notes. I like how you used music to explain meter. Made sense to me.
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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Great work with this. It actually made sense. I doubt I will ever write a poem (the fear factor has really taken over) but will help me understand what I am reading much better as well as those complicated explanations in the author's notes. I like how you used music to explain meter. Made sense to me.
Comment Written 14-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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That's awesome that it made some sense. That's what I was trying to do, write it out in English. :))
I've read your poetry and enjoyed it. Screw the technical stuff, if it sounds good it is. If people like it, it's good. I'm a pretty good poet, I say it's good. Who wants to argue. HAHAHA! mike
Comment from Dean Kuch
These people were cultists **comma spacing** ,for sure, and I was the... the comma is a bit out of joint here, Mikey...
Take a word like running. Say it out loud. Listen to how you pronounce it. First we see that running has two syllables, we already know that, yes? Run-ning. Do we say RUN-ning, emphasizing "RUN" or do we say "run-NING", emphasizing "NING"? An easy one, correct? "RUN" is emphasized. "RUN" is the stressed syllable and "ning" is the unstressed syllable.........Not when Forest Gump says run-NING it ain't, Mikey. One day he just decided to start run-Ning, for no apparent reason whatsoever. He just kept run-Ning, and run-Ning, until he didn't feel much like run-Ning anymore.
So, Forest speaks in iambic pentameter, at least according to your, "The rain in Spain, falls mainly on the plain; da DUM da DUM da DUMda DUM da DUM" example.
So, this how-to on meter is NOT in the contest? That's a shame because the way it is written, it will really help a lot of folks out as it pertains to understanding proper meter. Sure, you can look up all sorts of information on meter and how to properly apply it on the net. But this down-to-earth way of explaining it is much easier to understand, I think.
Then again, what the hell do I know about meter?
Heh-heh-heh...
Good work, Mikey. Very helpful info.
~Dean
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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These people were cultists **comma spacing** ,for sure, and I was the... the comma is a bit out of joint here, Mikey...
Take a word like running. Say it out loud. Listen to how you pronounce it. First we see that running has two syllables, we already know that, yes? Run-ning. Do we say RUN-ning, emphasizing "RUN" or do we say "run-NING", emphasizing "NING"? An easy one, correct? "RUN" is emphasized. "RUN" is the stressed syllable and "ning" is the unstressed syllable.........Not when Forest Gump says run-NING it ain't, Mikey. One day he just decided to start run-Ning, for no apparent reason whatsoever. He just kept run-Ning, and run-Ning, until he didn't feel much like run-Ning anymore.
So, Forest speaks in iambic pentameter, at least according to your, "The rain in Spain, falls mainly on the plain; da DUM da DUM da DUMda DUM da DUM" example.
So, this how-to on meter is NOT in the contest? That's a shame because the way it is written, it will really help a lot of folks out as it pertains to understanding proper meter. Sure, you can look up all sorts of information on meter and how to properly apply it on the net. But this down-to-earth way of explaining it is much easier to understand, I think.
Then again, what the hell do I know about meter?
Heh-heh-heh...
Good work, Mikey. Very helpful info.
~Dean
Comment Written 14-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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Naw, Forest said RUN-NING, DUM-DUM a spondee. But, it still works! Ahh. My innocents is intact, now where's that virgin?
I entered some blathering psychological treatise about MYSELF in the non-fiction contest. I didn't remember until I went to enter this. DUH!
Well, that's awesome that you think this helps. I wasn't sure if it would at all. This, and pestering Marillion to death is how I finally got it somewhat down. I think I drove him from the site. "Just take a look if you have a chance" became a scary phrase to him.
Now I pester others. They find me charming and endearing I'm guessing. :)) I see you're recent piece is about that very thing, Parasitic something. Interesting. HAHAHA!
Thanks a million, Dean. I'm really glad you found this of benefit. mike
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Sure thing, Mikey, and I really did find it helpful. In fact, I meant to add it to my bookshelf to refer to later as a reference guide of sorts.
So, thank you for reminding me. My memory ain't what it used to be.
~Dean
Comment from Ulla
Wow, Mike, thanks a billion for writing this and explain what meter is really about and in such a simple way. To me your analogue to music just made it so clear to me. I am at the stage where I try out the Haiku which I am quite fascinated with. If I ever take it any further then it would be thanks to you and this very well written essay on the topic. All the best. Ulla
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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Wow, Mike, thanks a billion for writing this and explain what meter is really about and in such a simple way. To me your analogue to music just made it so clear to me. I am at the stage where I try out the Haiku which I am quite fascinated with. If I ever take it any further then it would be thanks to you and this very well written essay on the topic. All the best. Ulla
Comment Written 14-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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Hi, Ulla. That just makes me so happy. Wow. It's so difficult sometimes listening to all of this technical language. It's enough to drive us crazy. Ha! I'm so pleased that this makes sense. It's finally how it made sense to me. Thanks a million for letting me know. mike
Comment from crzypnter
mikey,
I just had to wait until I could give you a sixer for this one. How true your essay rings on meter. A valuable lesson put into musical terms makes the essay flow right along. I have said before my friend, you can write about anything. This is just further proof. Great job my friend. God bless always
August
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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mikey,
I just had to wait until I could give you a sixer for this one. How true your essay rings on meter. A valuable lesson put into musical terms makes the essay flow right along. I have said before my friend, you can write about anything. This is just further proof. Great job my friend. God bless always
August
Comment Written 14-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 14-Feb-2016
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Wow. That's just super of you, August. I'm so pleased you found this to be of value. I wasn't sure if it would make sense or not. I'm delighted it does. Thanks a million for all the encouragement and the awesome review. mike
Comment from Phyllis Stewart
Brrrravo, Mikey! You made it all understandable to beginners and even old-timers who never caught on. Yes, SLAP is DUM. I love your musical examples, and the fact that you gave many examples, explaining how each expresses a meter. Best lesson on meter I have ever heard or will hear! COngratulations! Sorry I have no sixes for this masterpiece. :)
reply by the author on 13-Feb-2016
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Brrrravo, Mikey! You made it all understandable to beginners and even old-timers who never caught on. Yes, SLAP is DUM. I love your musical examples, and the fact that you gave many examples, explaining how each expresses a meter. Best lesson on meter I have ever heard or will hear! COngratulations! Sorry I have no sixes for this masterpiece. :)
Comment Written 13-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 13-Feb-2016
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Gee, I'm just delighted you think this works. I wasn't sure if it did or not. I'm beside myself with a big smile, smiling at myself. HAHAHA! Thanks so much. I'll run around the block screaming now. :)) mikey
Comment from Gloria ....
You know how to write them up real good, Mikey. Your easy, conversational style lets us right in to the magic of your mind.
I guess I never even really thought about it before that we're supposed to slap ourselves each time we get the meter wrong. ;-) I'm really glad I picked it up before then.
Your poetry is always in perfect meter so very nice of you to share with us how that came about. You were sacrificed to the poetry goddess nude and innocent. Is that innocent part right?
You are an amazing writer of both prose and poetry and I guess you being a musician didn't hurt none either.
Super entertaining write here. I look forward to your next post.
Gloria
reply by the author on 13-Feb-2016
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You know how to write them up real good, Mikey. Your easy, conversational style lets us right in to the magic of your mind.
I guess I never even really thought about it before that we're supposed to slap ourselves each time we get the meter wrong. ;-) I'm really glad I picked it up before then.
Your poetry is always in perfect meter so very nice of you to share with us how that came about. You were sacrificed to the poetry goddess nude and innocent. Is that innocent part right?
You are an amazing writer of both prose and poetry and I guess you being a musician didn't hurt none either.
Super entertaining write here. I look forward to your next post.
Gloria
Comment Written 13-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 13-Feb-2016
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It took a long time for me to get the iambic meter down to some kind of workable thing. It's the opposite of what I feel like doing. Anyway, as you know, I'm not shy about pestering the top poets for help. That's one way to perfect meter. :))
I believe my innocence is readily apparent though my nudity seems a seldom requested state for some reason. I suppose that increases the innocence factor, but it seems to take the joy out of things for some reason that I imagine I'm too innocent to fully fathom.
I think being a musician is the only thing that gave me any chance of getting close to understanding meter, especially with the way it is put to people here. So, yes, it helped.
Thanks so much. mikey