OPEN LETTER TO FS
unanswered questions and observations46 total reviews
Comment from twinklepoems
Thank you Spiritual Echo for eloquently voicing concerns that I have had. When the year ended I was number 15 for poetry, when the beginning of the year rankings came out I was number 32. I had and still have no understanding of how that happens. I saw a entire set of names that I had never seen during the year above me. Did they pay off Tom? Offer to pay higher dues? What? When I asked Tom I too got an evasive answer. A week or so ago I monitored how many hits I got. I received 33 in a day but only went up one place while others went up several places. I too wish I could understand the scoring system. I like to have a basic understanding of the game. Thanks for voicing this concern.
reply by the author on 05-Mar-2014
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Thank you Spiritual Echo for eloquently voicing concerns that I have had. When the year ended I was number 15 for poetry, when the beginning of the year rankings came out I was number 32. I had and still have no understanding of how that happens. I saw a entire set of names that I had never seen during the year above me. Did they pay off Tom? Offer to pay higher dues? What? When I asked Tom I too got an evasive answer. A week or so ago I monitored how many hits I got. I received 33 in a day but only went up one place while others went up several places. I too wish I could understand the scoring system. I like to have a basic understanding of the game. Thanks for voicing this concern.
Comment Written 05-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 05-Mar-2014
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The most important point is transparency--let people know what's going on. I have no idea how ranking happens. I do know, but newbies don't, that come Jan 1st all scores roll over to zero. Many people show up high on the rankings because they have posted the req'd six poems or stories, then fall back, but I swear there's some residual hangover, how else would anyone go back to the general vicinity of the previous year?
Even announcing the maintenance program and letting people, especially those in different time zones, would be a courtesy. We have all been on the receiving end of the abrupt responses that more or less sound like they're telling us to mind our own business. Sigh.
Comment from forestport12
Read your post with interest. I think you should attempt to place that winning story in a periodical. It deserves to be read by a wider audience. I contend that Tom is really a super computer in a trailer somewhere and like one of my favorite old shows, someday with Skully's help on X-Files we will find him, cause the truth is out there. Stan
reply by the author on 05-Mar-2014
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Read your post with interest. I think you should attempt to place that winning story in a periodical. It deserves to be read by a wider audience. I contend that Tom is really a super computer in a trailer somewhere and like one of my favorite old shows, someday with Skully's help on X-Files we will find him, cause the truth is out there. Stan
Comment Written 05-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 05-Mar-2014
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I've spent a fair bit of time adding to that story and entered it in a pretty big contest with a $5K prize. Fingers crossed.
I thought I saw Scully yesterday...Was a great show. Hugs.
Comment from l.raven
HI Echo, all the lists of ranking and writing are not true...I came in this year like everyone did...we are given 5000 points off the bat...I did my six poems to get listed...I totaled 786 points...when they listed me on the board I was only given 464..some where in there...they took away close to 300 of my reviews...in just six poems...I contacted Tom and asked why...first I was told because of the new comers...I asked what that had to do with my reviews...I wanted someone to tell me what was wrong with each one they took away...that is a lot of reviews....and I paid for them...then they changed it to the way the reviewers where answering the poems...I so very rarely get a 4 star...they were all good and excellent reviews...then they said other factors...That would have put me in third place between Gungalo and Maureen...Gungalo asked me what I was going to do...I went back a couple times and who ever is on the other side said that was my ranking...in other words...we are not explaining what we are doing...we are just doing it...and your reviews will be thrown away when we want to throw them away...I have sense lost many more reviews for no good reason...but it keeps the people up there they want up there...Michael (reconciled) has lost reviews too!!!this is just wrong....when you pay for those reviews NONE should be thrown away...even if you don't pay for them...they are your reviews...you should lose them for NO reason...so the lists are fixed...they are not what people really get...and that is so wrong...but I know the ones that are up there are not really the higest ranking...or everyone's reviews would count...I so know Brooke , Gungalo, and Maureen all should be there...but I know if they had given me my reviews I would have been there....very well written Ingrid...and very well said...a great write....Luff Linda xxoo
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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HI Echo, all the lists of ranking and writing are not true...I came in this year like everyone did...we are given 5000 points off the bat...I did my six poems to get listed...I totaled 786 points...when they listed me on the board I was only given 464..some where in there...they took away close to 300 of my reviews...in just six poems...I contacted Tom and asked why...first I was told because of the new comers...I asked what that had to do with my reviews...I wanted someone to tell me what was wrong with each one they took away...that is a lot of reviews....and I paid for them...then they changed it to the way the reviewers where answering the poems...I so very rarely get a 4 star...they were all good and excellent reviews...then they said other factors...That would have put me in third place between Gungalo and Maureen...Gungalo asked me what I was going to do...I went back a couple times and who ever is on the other side said that was my ranking...in other words...we are not explaining what we are doing...we are just doing it...and your reviews will be thrown away when we want to throw them away...I have sense lost many more reviews for no good reason...but it keeps the people up there they want up there...Michael (reconciled) has lost reviews too!!!this is just wrong....when you pay for those reviews NONE should be thrown away...even if you don't pay for them...they are your reviews...you should lose them for NO reason...so the lists are fixed...they are not what people really get...and that is so wrong...but I know the ones that are up there are not really the higest ranking...or everyone's reviews would count...I so know Brooke , Gungalo, and Maureen all should be there...but I know if they had given me my reviews I would have been there....very well written Ingrid...and very well said...a great write....Luff Linda xxoo
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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What you have just told me is outrageous. I lost one review (that I know)and they gave me the same brush off. That set me off. If I had been in your position I would have blown more lave than Etna. Geeze!!!! Tell me how do you know you had 736 points? How do you calculate? This has been bugging me for a while.
I tend to agree about having favourites, but then I give myself shit for being paranoid. But for what gain? Why would FS mngmt care who is up there?
Wow, your story blows me away.
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I went back and counted all the reviews I got from each one of the six poems...it is in your portfolio...If you go to my portfolio and add all the reviews I have gotten this year you would see how many were not accounted for...a lot...you can do the same to your own....go back to the first poem of this year and add all your views up...and see how many you have and how many you have on that list...I would still be at the top...it's all a lie...those listing are fixed...and when your paying as much as they charge you to get on the top 10...all those reviews should be added up and counted...it's about money...let me know what you find out...
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I was told when it comes to contests, the quantity doesn't count, only the quality. Others told me its a ratio--they figured it out--didn't guess. No matter you have to have 40% as six stars to be on poem/story of the month. But no one seems to know how rankings work.
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I was told when it comes to contests, the quantity doesn't count, only the quality. Others told me its a ratio--they figured it out--didn't guess. No matter you have to have 40% as six stars to be on poem/story of the month. But no one seems to know how rankings work.
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there is set anything on here..it's all made up as they go along...ranking is a joke...
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I went and counted my reviews from the first of this year...I have 1301 and a few more from my last poem. out now...from 1301+ they have given me 750...my score on the listing is 5750...we all get 5000...so they have thrown away 651 of my reviews...so how wrong is that???makes me sick...go add yours up...I bet it's the same...
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I don't know if they count each review as a point or give different values to the points in rankings, but I already know it isn't one point per review. I'd still like a statement on site how the number is calculated.
The definitely dumped a lot, but do remember they throw out the highest and lowest.
Check on your menu under status and see how the numbers look there.
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well for each poem I will take off the lowest and the highest ...see what I come up with...did Brooke's...they took 3370 off hers...so I don't feel so bad...it's not just me...I was taking personal...I'm wrong...still they shouldn't take so much away...
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Wouldn't it be nice if they just explained it to us. Enjoy the lump in your gut...it's the ball of crap you've been expected to swallow.
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LOL... you said a mouth full...that is so true...like you say they should put it out a bit clearer...well I don't feel so bad...were all swallowing the same crap...LOL...cheers!!!LOL
Comment from Spitfire
A skillful way to handle your questions. You touch on some issues which perplex me too. As for handing out sixes to someone other than the tried and true, I agree and save them to encourage those not in the top ten. I, too, would like to know the formula and have felt cheated at times when several sixes on a post should have boosted me up the ladder. Alas, that wasn't so.
I don't know what can be done about the situation. But as you say, getting a trophy from FS won't get you published. It's really disconcerting to see the quality of work that get fives. Thanks for writing this.
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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A skillful way to handle your questions. You touch on some issues which perplex me too. As for handing out sixes to someone other than the tried and true, I agree and save them to encourage those not in the top ten. I, too, would like to know the formula and have felt cheated at times when several sixes on a post should have boosted me up the ladder. Alas, that wasn't so.
I don't know what can be done about the situation. But as you say, getting a trophy from FS won't get you published. It's really disconcerting to see the quality of work that get fives. Thanks for writing this.
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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I found out, that hard way, that not everyone is here for the same reason and many expect that five. kip, edit or offer fluff, I've done them all, but then there's the circle. Not defines by rank, once I recognize the passion, I'll give them anything I can to hep them along.
The numbers are a yardstick and I like winning--no apologize, but I'm a gracious loser, I just really want to know the rules.
Comment from adewpearl
I totally understand your concerns. The site's frequently going down has concerned many of us. Today it went down when a class I was supposed to teach was scheduled to start. Talk about bad timing.
I will attest that site-sponsored contest winners do receive the hundred dollar prize as advertised. I always choose the paypal option and receive the money right away.
As for poem of the month/story of the month nominees, I do know that I have not been nominated in so long that I can't even remember the last time, but it was well over a year ago. I contacted Tom a couple of years ago when I failed to get nominated for a poem that had over 50 six star reviews, the highest number I'd ever received. But I also had over 200 reviews. I would bet good money there is a ratio formula involved so that people who receive far fewer reviews have a much better chance of getting a third or more of their reviews rated with a six than I will ever have because I promote high and have a large fan base. I've lost all interest in the POM because of this. I am not so arrogant as to believe I should win every month, but I damn well know I've written some poems in the past few years that are at least as good as some of the nominees in months when I failed to be mentioned. :-)
You raise many good points. Brooke
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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I totally understand your concerns. The site's frequently going down has concerned many of us. Today it went down when a class I was supposed to teach was scheduled to start. Talk about bad timing.
I will attest that site-sponsored contest winners do receive the hundred dollar prize as advertised. I always choose the paypal option and receive the money right away.
As for poem of the month/story of the month nominees, I do know that I have not been nominated in so long that I can't even remember the last time, but it was well over a year ago. I contacted Tom a couple of years ago when I failed to get nominated for a poem that had over 50 six star reviews, the highest number I'd ever received. But I also had over 200 reviews. I would bet good money there is a ratio formula involved so that people who receive far fewer reviews have a much better chance of getting a third or more of their reviews rated with a six than I will ever have because I promote high and have a large fan base. I've lost all interest in the POM because of this. I am not so arrogant as to believe I should win every month, but I damn well know I've written some poems in the past few years that are at least as good as some of the nominees in months when I failed to be mentioned. :-)
You raise many good points. Brooke
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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I'm not on this site or competing for rank, the money, that's a different story.
Several responders assured me that your theory is right. I've heard the 6.5% ratio several times since posting this essay. Perhaps there is no easy way for a site to determine nominees, but your example shows how senseless they behaved towards that poem. It certainly gives motivation to post your best stories or poems a couple of days prior to the deadline, just as people wait until Sunday morning for new posts.
Have you ever figured out the ranking system?
It would be in FS's best interests to post some acknowledgement about the maintenance. It has been every single night for two months. While it makes sense based on NA time zones, the folks from QZ are fed up and there is no acknowledgement or time lines given to them at all.
It doesn't make sense that the questions can't be shown on site and enquiries are fluffed off. One guy told me in a polite way that if I didn't like it I should quit. That's like threatening divorce every time a couple has a disagreement.
Thanks for the feedback and giving me your thoughts on this. ingrid
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Ingrid, no, I have not even spent time trying to figure out the rankings because I figure it involves math beyond my ken. I just don't understand why they can't flat out tell us things like how the ranking is determined and how contest nominees are decided. What is the advantage in keeping people in the dark? I understand why they won't reveal the names of committee members because then nobody would volunteer to be on the committees. But what purpose is served in having contests where participants don't know the rules? When I complained to Tom about not being nominated for the poem with over 50 six star ratings, he "reassured" me by telling me it's really hard to make the cut. LOL
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There is no reason unless there's personal gain and I don't see that being the case here. Thanks.
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I agree - I can't figure out any personal gain or ulterior motives. I don't see the down side for being transparent.
Comment from Ronni
Hi Spiritual Echo:
Been on here about as long as you have. Your points
and concerns are well taken, and confusions and diffusions
noted are quite familiar. With same non-resolutions or
clarifications regarding contests, rankings and status.
I ceased my inquiries of such quandries and the
mysterious tecnical glitches and repair down times.
Seems the more questions asked, fewer and lesser answers
emerge. It may lie within the prevailing 'networking'
group, and is as secret as 'DaVinci's Code' apparently,
and only they have such access or blessings from whatever
"Source' it originates from. Again...I do NOT KNOW this
to be...nor not to be the case, and personally to me,
it no longer matters nor frustrates me. It is what it is...
as it is. There is no imminent savior for revelation
or salvation...whether it be wrong or right or secret.
Like you, I came on this site simply to read and write
poetry, improving mine over time. And like you, have
been immensely helped and enriched by the poetic friendshnips formed and reading so many fascinating
and enlightenment poems and stories. Talents here,
indeed are unique, unusual, brilliant , genius and
extraordinary!!! Many, many have not been accorded
the ranking or distinctions due them, many times over.
And yet, they go on, and continue to honor their talent
and their gift of poetry. To me, and perhaps to them
too, the politics and technical critiera of this site
is my least concern or anxiety. Many too that I knew
since I came on FS...left gradually, out of disappointment
and lack of appreciation and more objective reviews, and
some even left with spirts and hearts broken. That has
concerned and grieved me more than any other flaws on FS.
But to you, and to those whom it does matter about
the issues cited here, you have every right to voice them,
and I commend you for doing so here. They are valid and
real, and intellectually objective in every respect.
I hope someday they are addressed with equal capacity
and tenacity as you have raised them.
Thanks for sharing...best wishes always, Ronni
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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Hi Spiritual Echo:
Been on here about as long as you have. Your points
and concerns are well taken, and confusions and diffusions
noted are quite familiar. With same non-resolutions or
clarifications regarding contests, rankings and status.
I ceased my inquiries of such quandries and the
mysterious tecnical glitches and repair down times.
Seems the more questions asked, fewer and lesser answers
emerge. It may lie within the prevailing 'networking'
group, and is as secret as 'DaVinci's Code' apparently,
and only they have such access or blessings from whatever
"Source' it originates from. Again...I do NOT KNOW this
to be...nor not to be the case, and personally to me,
it no longer matters nor frustrates me. It is what it is...
as it is. There is no imminent savior for revelation
or salvation...whether it be wrong or right or secret.
Like you, I came on this site simply to read and write
poetry, improving mine over time. And like you, have
been immensely helped and enriched by the poetic friendshnips formed and reading so many fascinating
and enlightenment poems and stories. Talents here,
indeed are unique, unusual, brilliant , genius and
extraordinary!!! Many, many have not been accorded
the ranking or distinctions due them, many times over.
And yet, they go on, and continue to honor their talent
and their gift of poetry. To me, and perhaps to them
too, the politics and technical critiera of this site
is my least concern or anxiety. Many too that I knew
since I came on FS...left gradually, out of disappointment
and lack of appreciation and more objective reviews, and
some even left with spirts and hearts broken. That has
concerned and grieved me more than any other flaws on FS.
But to you, and to those whom it does matter about
the issues cited here, you have every right to voice them,
and I commend you for doing so here. They are valid and
real, and intellectually objective in every respect.
I hope someday they are addressed with equal capacity
and tenacity as you have raised them.
Thanks for sharing...best wishes always, Ronni
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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Ronni, I already reached the level of allowing the annoyance settle, but periodically it flares. The answers are not forthcoming and likely never will. It matters to me from the point that I simply don't understand and would like to know. If I don't like it, I have the option to opt out and will be quickly replaced.
Not in my wildest imagination do I think an answer will come out of an essay.
Thanks for your heartfelt and generous response.
Comment from Rosalyne
Hi, Spiritual Echo.
Any contest posted in the "real world" shares a list of judges, their names and oftentimes their credentials. There are no hidden curtains, or mighty Wizards Of Oz controlling all decisions.
I had the pleasure of reading your story, Train to Freedom. You wrote an excellent story that warranted not only six stars, but the winning placement for story of the month.
I have had time to digest some of the oddities on this site, and realized what's important to me. Like you mentioned, your writing improved, you have made wonderful friendships, and feel more confident in yourself as a writer. To me this is the most valuable experience one can have.
I do feel your frustrations and agree with your points mentioned. This is a good article and hopefully one that will be read by the man of mystery behind the curtain.
Bye
Rosalyne :)
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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Hi, Spiritual Echo.
Any contest posted in the "real world" shares a list of judges, their names and oftentimes their credentials. There are no hidden curtains, or mighty Wizards Of Oz controlling all decisions.
I had the pleasure of reading your story, Train to Freedom. You wrote an excellent story that warranted not only six stars, but the winning placement for story of the month.
I have had time to digest some of the oddities on this site, and realized what's important to me. Like you mentioned, your writing improved, you have made wonderful friendships, and feel more confident in yourself as a writer. To me this is the most valuable experience one can have.
I do feel your frustrations and agree with your points mentioned. This is a good article and hopefully one that will be read by the man of mystery behind the curtain.
Bye
Rosalyne :)
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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Thanks for reading my story and offering feedback here. What I have gained from this site is entirely due to the generosity and interest of other members. It has been invaluable to my growth, not to mention keeping me company during this dreadful winter.
Even if I don't like the rules, I have the option to accept or reject, but not understanding what the rules are, drives me crazy.
Comment from judiverse
Since I have seldom, if ever, ended up in the winner's circle, I guess I don't have the same curiosity about how these matters are handled. I was aware of the shutdown, but don't think I lost anything. There was certainly no prior warning. When my husband had a job briefly working at an employment agency, he used a pseudonym so as not to be pestered by unhappy job seekers. I suspect "Tom" is kind of a generic term for the whole staff--how many of them there may be. It seems to me the way of establishing rankings is pretty clear-cut, but I certainly don't know how the story, novel, or poem of the month is selected. You raise some interesting questions in this. judi
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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Since I have seldom, if ever, ended up in the winner's circle, I guess I don't have the same curiosity about how these matters are handled. I was aware of the shutdown, but don't think I lost anything. There was certainly no prior warning. When my husband had a job briefly working at an employment agency, he used a pseudonym so as not to be pestered by unhappy job seekers. I suspect "Tom" is kind of a generic term for the whole staff--how many of them there may be. It seems to me the way of establishing rankings is pretty clear-cut, but I certainly don't know how the story, novel, or poem of the month is selected. You raise some interesting questions in this. judi
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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I know for certain that Tom is the name of the person on the other end, no matter what he/she calls herself when she walks away from the computer. Either that or Tom never sleeps and has multiple personality disorder as there are different tones to responses.
Comment from Erik McGinley
Well I am not Tom but I am highly qualified to talk about websites. They shut down whenever they do because they have to run a database overhaul and the Cannot do that while the site is up. FULL STOP. Don't like it? Too bad. It's how computers work.
On the competition issues, I have my own gripes. I think they ARE grossly lopsided in even superficial ways. The points you mention go deeper than my grumbles about blatant equity.
I am guessing Tom may be just one person, possibly with minimal help. The standard of the site as a website is very poor.
The concept is what make this place tick. Changes cost money and I suspect he does not want to spend it.
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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Well I am not Tom but I am highly qualified to talk about websites. They shut down whenever they do because they have to run a database overhaul and the Cannot do that while the site is up. FULL STOP. Don't like it? Too bad. It's how computers work.
On the competition issues, I have my own gripes. I think they ARE grossly lopsided in even superficial ways. The points you mention go deeper than my grumbles about blatant equity.
I am guessing Tom may be just one person, possibly with minimal help. The standard of the site as a website is very poor.
The concept is what make this place tick. Changes cost money and I suspect he does not want to spend it.
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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Erik, I fully understand that web sites need to shut down for maintenance, but this has been happening every single night for two months. That would indicate a major problem, if true, not routine maintenance.
It's his site. He can do whatever he wants with it and make the rules. I'm okay with that, but I'd like to understand what they are? It then becomes my choice whether I want to pay for the service. The people in OZ are being shut out in their prime time--every night. From the rumbling I've heard, it's tough to accept no access except during their sleeping hours.
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I follow. I guess its a large database or he is trying to improve how it runs.
I don't like it either but they have to do it sometime.
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Now, I'm not saying how other folks run their business, but if it was mine, I might post an editorial on the home page. I'd explain what I'm trying to accomplish, give an estimate how long this nightly shut down will continue and thank members for their patience. But, I guess that's just me.
Comment from boxergirl
You have done a good job with your open letter to FS. The questions you have posed are valid and deserve to be answered. Thanks for addressing these issues and I will be interested to see if anything changes. Probably don't need to hold our breath. 8-)
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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You have done a good job with your open letter to FS. The questions you have posed are valid and deserve to be answered. Thanks for addressing these issues and I will be interested to see if anything changes. Probably don't need to hold our breath. 8-)
Comment Written 04-Mar-2014
reply by the author on 04-Mar-2014
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No, I'm not holding my breath. But it has shown me just how many other people would like to know the answers.
