tamarap2: I have missed the site and missed contributing to it. Just been in a bad place and my creativity flew out the window to some unkown location. Hopefully, it is on its way home again. I will try to offer up some reviews. I haven't forgotten all of you. T


tamarap2: I think if people did not give five and sixes just because poems award big bucks...that would help the ranking to hold more clout. That's my suggestion- rather than complaining. And rate poems that are good poems, not that award higher member dollars. With integrity, I feel we can get the site on track! It is a shame for so many good poets to have such low ratings when their poems are jewels.
So anyway, that's my suggestion. And is the rule I play by-
    Border Reiver: You're not the only member to have commented on this. Check out the forums. -


tamarap2: Ever since I have set my reviews to "comments only", it's as if I get less reviews than normal. I'm offering the same amount of member dollars. Wierd.
    Bellydanser: That is weird. You'd think people would feel more free to comment. Just shows how stuck some peoples' mindsets are. -
    Border Reiver: I've noticed that--not on my own work, I haven't tried it, but definietly on the works I've read. It's sad really. -


tamarap2: What does Level 7 mean in regards to reviewing? I still have the one blue star I've always had.
    Border Reiver: That's where I'm at too. I think you need to get to level 14 before you get the next star. They mean very little really. There's a vague correlation with the number of pieces commented on, but you get far more points from something in the up-next section than you do just reviewing you friends' work. You may have written far more reviews than someone with two stars. -
    tamarap2: I see. Thanks for answering my question -


tamarap2: when I am up late writing, I always have the tv on for background noise and I have become addicted to Friends reruns. I don't like to write sitting in a silent room-maybe jot down notes, but...


tamarap2: Well,I did it. I am accepting comment only. I took the plunge.
    --Turtle.: Good for you. I have been doing comments only for public posting for over a year.

    I like it. -
    tamarap2: It's a thrill to see that sixth yellow star, but... -
    tamarap2: It feels fine. I don't mind it at all. I've gotten some good reviews and some good guidance. I have learned from this site and for that I am grateful. -


tamarap2: You know, there are some reknowned poets who write poems that I wonder if many people understand. It's as if one needs a classrrom setting to dissect them and figure them out. I have felt that it is straying from the art of poetry to include author notes with my posts. But on occassion, maybe it's ok to do. What do you think? As much as I like Plath and Sexton, at times I ask myself what in the hell are they talking about. I prefer poems that encompass clarity and allow the reader to "get it".
    Sally Carter: So do I! If I want a puzzle, I prefer to do a crossword. LOL -
    another jim: I've got mixed feelings about the author's notes here on FS. On the one hand, they sometimes provide useful information; as a new writer, then, I find them handy as a teaching tool.

    Other times their use can be analagous to explaining the punchline of a joke, i.e., if you have to explain why it's funny, it probably wasn't much of a joke to begin with!

    I don't "get" every poem I read, either. But I also think it's the poet's prerogative to express what he/she wants to express in whatever way he/she finds artistically appropriate.

    Of course, when that happens, I turn to my crossword puzzles...LOL! -
    Lady & Louis: There's also the problem people have encountered of readers who apparently never contemplate Looking Something Up. "What is this sort of poem, I've never heard of it, therefore it gets three stars because I'm a lazy ignoramus who can't do a Google search" is the sort of reviewer who makes people put lengthy explanatory notes about forms into the notes. -


tamarap2: Where do you click to make your poem unavailable to rate, but open for reviews?
    Lady & Louis: Near the bottom of the edit screen is an Advanced Options button. Click on that and it shows extra menus. Ratings is one of them - normal (with stars), comment only or no reviews. :) -
    tamarap2: Got is! Thanks so much. I couldn't figure out where it was. T -
    Lady & Louis: I know, it's a pest that it's hidden like that - it used not to be. Glad to help! :) -
    tamarap2: So, I did it twice but I am still getting stars Mm? -


tamarap2: What's the difference between a Level 1 Professional and a Level 2?
    another jim: Um...one level?

    **slaps knee self-amusedly**

    I believe the level represents the number of Seal of Quality awards the member has received? Level 1 = 1 SoQ, Level 2 = 2 SoQs, and so on... -
    nor84: Yep, Jim, that's about it. -
    tamarap2: That's is funny. Good one. Uh, one level...yea, I think you're pretty much on top of things -


tamarap2: How do you type a hyphen? It's not in symbols and I have been using dashes, because I can figure out the whole hyphen thing. Can someone tell me.
    nor84: A hyphen is a dash - like that. In a hyphenated word, it looks like this: self-important. An em-dash, sometimes called a long dash, indicates a break in a sentence, and it's written with two dashese -- like that. -
    Lady & Louis: There are several ways of doing it. Some word programs will turn a hyphen (which is the minus symbol on a keyboard) into a dash when you put spaces between it and the words on either side.

    Hyphens are the connectors: they make two words one, like Norma's example. Dashes are to separate things. There's the style (is it American, Norma?) of word--word, no spaces; or there's the one I'm more used to, of word - word. The space maketh the dash, lol. I confess I prefer the latter because the long-dash style without spaces looks cluttered, but that's just my taste. Only thing is to stick with whichever you choose. :) -
    tamarap2: So there is no way to have one smooth em-dash line vs two dashes? -
    nor84: Some writing programs will change two dashes to an em-dash if you leave the -- unattached to words, like that. I use several, so not sure which one does it, Word2010 or Scrivener. Pretty sure Scrivener will, though. -
    nor84: Word2010 will do it too, and if you don't want the spaces between words, type it that way, then back up. The long dash still remains. -
    tamarap2: I figured out how to do it in a word doc...by accident. But when you copy and paste it to fanstory it becomes a quotation mark -


tamarap2: Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark. In the hopeless swamps of the not-quite, not-yet, and not-at-all, do not let the hero in your soul perish and leave only frustration for the life you deserve, but have never been able to reach. The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is possible, it is yours. Ayn Rand "Atlas Shrugged"


tamarap2: ok, I am feeling very disillusioned. I really like fanstory. I like being a part of this writing community and I enjoy reading the poetry on this site. And I learn here, as well. With that said, I do think we are living in a small world. In the grand scheme of things, I feel that there is some good poetry on the site. Excellent-occassionally. Exceptional- not really. That definitely goes for me. I know I am a very average poet in this great big world. I think we are comparing each other within the site and have created our unique subjective way of rating poetry. I wish we could re-adjust things. Average to good=excelent to exceptional, and it should not. People are so offended if they recieve a good-ridicules. Average poetry is average poetry, but on this site it is a big slap in the face. All of us, including the top ten poets on the site, have plenty of room for improvement. I am asking everyone to be conservative when rating my poetry. Goods are ok with me. That way, an excellent will mean something. I would be embarrassed for certain poets to see some of my poetry that has been ranked exceptional. This is where I am with all of this tonight. I am aware that this is commented on repeatedly on this site, but this is how I feel.
    nor84: It's the way many of us feel. -
    tamarap2: Yea, I know a lot of people feel this way. I wish there was a way to remedy the situation. Last year, the ratings had a description beneath them (i.e. needs work, need lots of work, ect.). Something along those lines. I liked that. It helped clarify ratings just a bit for those of us who chose to stay within the parameters of the descritions. -
    Judian James: The rankings on this site no longer mean anything due to the way they now may be obtained ... either through posting TWICE a day, EVERY day (which has nothing to do with talent), and/or buying reviews with high payouts (which has nothing to do with talent) Therefore, I am of the opinion that the rankings should be dispensed with OR totally ignored by those of us who are here to learn and want to EARN our ranking on merit and not with money. Well said Tamara. -
    tamarap2: I think we need to have a revolution. Maybe Organize a sit-in. :) -
    steevie : Ouch! If you happen upon one of my poems, be gentle. I am one of those really sensitive types you were refering to .... lol
    steve -
    tamarap2: I so agree Judian...earn on merit not on payouts -


tamarap2: Does anyone out there sometimes feel that there style and voice has become predictable? I do.
    Lady & Louis: I do, but I'm writing journals, not stories, so it isn't a problem there. -
    tamarap2: yea, that would be different. -
    tamarap2: Maybe I should start writing journals. I will check your out -


tamarap2: what are your feelings re: free verse poetry with no punctuation-just line breaks and that's all?
    Lady & Louis: I like it. I do most of my poetry that way (not that I write much now). I like the implied punctuation one can create with line breaks. -
    redrider6612: I prefer minimal punctuation in free verse too. -
    another jim: I think it's fine--admirable, even--if it's done in a way that the reader (me) can still comprehend what's being said. If I have to continually stop and ask myself, "What did she just say?"...not so much.

    IMO, with the possible exception of SPaG errors, nothing will turn a reader off quicker than having the message get lost in the medium. -


tamarap2: I seems that I have graduated from writing about trees to writing about the night. Mm?


tamarap2: My sentiment...if you receive four stars for your poem that means it is good. So many seem to get insulted and upset by a four. Who cares? I wish fours were handed out as if they were fives, then fives would mean something, and sixes would really be exceptional.
    Lady & Louis: True. I just get annoyed when someone hands out a four - which also means there's some sort of work needed on the piece - without a word of what that work is. If there's detail, if there's reasons given (and I don't mean "I don't like this genre" or "I don't agree with your opinion" type) that's fine, but when you have to ask and ask for what it was the reviewer thought, that's annoying. All the fours I've received in the last months (which have been few) have been of the "it didn't float my boat" variety, nary a word about actual writing issues. Basically it's the same thing whatever the rating: back it up! Give detail! -
    Border Reiver: I agree. A lot of people get irritated when they get anything less than a 5, but I feel that's just because 90% (or more) of things posted on here get 5 and therefore the masses are devaluing the good 4 and the respectable 3- which is also meant to be average. In my opinion, if a piece is average or good before you get feedback then you are a promising writer and if you take that feedback and put it to good use, then you are on your way to realising your dreams of becoming a successful writer. Most of the reviews which I hav appreciated the most have been 3s and 4s and one wonderful 2. But like Louise, I do get annoyed when someone gives me anything less than a 5 and doesn't give a coherent reason or suggestions for improvement. -
    tamarap2: I see both of your points. But sometimes a good is just that- good. Not bad. Just a basic good poem that is due four stars. If I remember correctly, four stars does not include " needs improvements". Sometimes it isn't possible to turn a good poem into an excellent- the good one just is what it is. I received a four yesterday with some really nice comments. I was pleased with the comments and didn't feel like I needed any further explanation or guidance. Here's what's significant...all scales are subjective and some people don't think "good" is bad. If this sounds like I am being overly defensive, I am not meaning to come across as terse. Just expressing my feelings, while respecting all of your comments -


tamarap2: Foothills Publishing accepted my chapbook for the Springfed Chapbook Series! It's a start!
    nancyjam: That's great news. Congratulations! let me know when it comes out. Nancy -
    nancyjam: That's great news. Congratulations! let me know when it comes out. Nancy -
    tamarap2: ok, Nancy! I will! Thank you for your interest
    -


tamarap2: It's nice to see a lot of new writers this year.


tamarap2: Has anyone gotten questionable reviews from Stevensonlisa914? I am wondering if she/he is ligit. Just joined this month, no postes.
    redrider6612: If you block Standards, this won't happen too often. She seems to be testing the waters here, and has a lot to learn about reviewing effectively. Her verbiage is eloquent even if it is too vague to be any help. I wouldn't write her off as malicious, just a newbie. -
    purrfect tale: After reading this I went and looked at Stevensonlisa914's comment. They scared me so much that I went to the two new pieces I have posted and checked the writers only comment box. Wow - she's giving 3s when she says she likes things. -
    tamarap2: There is a writers only box, as in if someone has posted nothing on the site, they can't review. -
    tamarap2: Where do you go to click on writers only re: receiving reviews only from others who have posted on the site -


FanStory wrote to tamarap2: Congratulations on earning a Seal of Quality.
    JeJo: a big congratulations!!! -
    juliaSjames: Congratulations. I'm going to read your work. Best wishes for the future. -
    Judian James: I knew you could do it! Congratulations my friend, Jude -
    tamarap2: Thank you,JeJo, Julia, and my dear Judian. I received some great suggestions for improvement and have begun my revisions. Thank you, again Tamara -
    nancyjam: Oh what wonderful news! Congratulations on this well deserved award. I remember reviewing this poem and liking is very much.
    Way to go. Nancy -
    tamarap2: Thank you Nancy. So much. Tamara -
    another jim: Hey, tamarap2! I've read some of your stuff and this award comes as no surprise. Congrats! -
    moyramouse: well done! This is wonderful news and so well deserved. xxx -


tamarap2: Thank you to all of those writers who have given me some good, sound suggestions over this past week. You know who you are


tamarap2: I have been reading a poet named Walter Benton. He was born in Austria and is of Russian descent. He fought in WWII and published his first book of poetry in 1943. I have his book, an original hardback. The cost $3.95 cents. His talent is priceless- it's like nothing I've come across. He is now on my official list of favorite poets. His words pull tears from my eyes. His two books: Never a Greater Need and This is My Beloved. His love poems are staggering. With each reading I am slayed. I suggest that before before attempting one's next love poem-this is a must read that will leave you astounded by his mastery of words of love and longing and passion- I assure you, you will be a changed person with a daunting task ahead of you when writing your next love poem
    tamarap2: I think we need a writing prompt: Write a love poem WITHOUT using the words passion, deep in my soul, in the depths of my being, ect. There are many others I come across time and time again. You get my drift. I don't attempt love poems, because unless your really good, they won't be. -
    tamarap2: many others as in predictable lines
    -


tamarap2: Some people must spend a fortune posting poetry on this site, or either they review all the live long day- my trite phrase for the day :) I can only review so much, and then I'm exhausted. I do take my reviews seriously, like many of us. That's why I get so tired, I think. This is not a negative comment-just an observation.


tamarap2: "If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this
sheet of paper. Without a cloud there will be no water; without water, the trees cannot grow; and without trees, you cannot make paper. So the cloud is in here. The existence of this page is dependent upon the
existence of a cloud. Paper and cloud are so close."
- Thich Nhat Hahn
    tamarap2: I need to edit these line breaks. I copy and pasted and it didn't come out correctly -
    tamarap2: oh well, it's not letting me :( and it is so beautiful -


tamarap2: I want to remove a poet from the poets I am following. Does anyone know how to do that or is it possible? To be clear, I do not want to mute. I just do not want all of his/her poems sent to me by private message
    JeJo: hmm.. I don't know how to do that/get to that page without becoming a fan of someone. From there, I can add/remove authors. There should probably be another way to get to that page, but I don't know it. From that page, you could also just block notifications from them (PM) instead of taking them off your list, if you want. -
    redrider6612: On your profile page, one of the tabs across the top is "fan list". Go there and below the list of your fans is the list of authors you are following. There will be a "remove" button next to each one. -
    tamarap2: thanks, I discovered the fan list icon and took care of it. It was staring me in my face -
    JeJo: I knew I had gotten to it somehow, but didn't remember - it was hiding in plain sight, yes.. -


tamarap2: Sometimes I struggle when rating poems that have good rhyme and meter, but are predictable, trite, and generic. It's hard to give four stars for a poem then explain why, when line breaks are good, the stanzas structurally sound, the rhyme and meter are good, but the poem itself just isn't. I do not like to rate a poem based on content/subject matter, but sometimes... I struggle with all of this because I take my reviews very seriously. I also wonder what would happen if all poems were posted offering the same amount of member dollars for a review. So many good writers can be found in the lower ranks, while many with higher ranking just buy them. I know this is old new and is over discussed on this site, but I'm just saying...
    tamarap2: When I reference subject
    matter/content I am mostly referencing poems relating to serious subject matter, yet they lack depth and are presented in a "sing song" elementary fashion -for lack of a better explaination -
    JeJo: I have the same problem and I'm sure several others do. I usually rate those poems a four, trying to explain why I think it is cliche, trite, not original. That is judging on content, yes, but that is part of reviewing the poem - it is not being biased to the theme, just the way it is being stated. I also take reviews very seriously. The higher/lower ranks have been talked about so many times, yet, of course, it bugs us. It is frustrating, but I think if we remember it is only us we can control, everything can settle down a bit more.. -
    tamarap2: Thank you for your comment, JeJo. I agree. It is only us we can control. -
    redrider6612: Originality certainly affects how enjoyable a poem is which is one of the criteria to consider in deciding what rating to give. I really appreciate when someone points out a trite turn of phrase in a poem. That happened on my most recent poem which led me to play with phrases until I found a more original one. It improved the poem immeasurably. -


tamarap2: I find that a "humorous" poem involving accidentally killing Obama instead of Osama is a sad choice of subject matter and was disappointed to find such a thing. I did not review, because I don't give negative reviews based on content. Just a sad commentary I think
    barkingdog: There is nothing funny about killing our president. They should know better. Shame on the tiny brain that posted it. -
    tamarap2: Glad to see that you agree. -
    MacNizzle: There's really nothing funny about killing Osama either. -
    tamarap2: I agree. To be joking around about any of it is something I find to be offensive. I could discuss this for the next hour -


tamarap2: I just can't help myself when it comes to writing about the earth. It calls to me every single day. However, I'm concerned my writing is starting to become predictable. But how can I not stay true to myself?
    MacNizzle: The poet Laura Riding says in one of her works that, in addition to the four seasons, there is a fifth season. In naming it, she essentially created it and made it real. Anyone can do this but our minds are hampered by so-called "truths" - what we are told IS what it IS. What would you call the sun if someone hadn't told you what it was? Good poetry invents and creates, but we can re-invent and re-create what is already right in front of us if we are able to shut off the "truth-y" voices and find our own definitions. I don't know if that answered your question (or even made any sense now that I re-read it) but I always keep it in mind when I'm trying to write something fresh that hasn't been heard before. :) -
    Celtic~Soul: Very inspirational, McN. And much truth within those words, esp.: Good poetry invents and creates, but we can re-invent and re-create what is already right in front of us if we are able to shut off the "truth-y" voices and find our own definitions. Spot on. -


tamarap2: I do want to say that even though I have criticized certain aspect of the site, I do enjoy it and have learned from my fellow writers-one of my goals for joining fanstory
    JeJo: I bet there are a few things most everyone would like to change or doesn't like, but the overall benefits of this site are good and learning is one of the most important. I'm glad it fits one of your goals for this site :) -


tamarap2: Judian James's newly published book Resonate is outstanding. I highly recommend it to everyone. It is breathtaking and motivates and inspires.
    MacNizzle: I just discovered her recently. Great stuff! I plan to check out that book... -
    JeJo: I bought both her books, and I agree, they are just wonderful! -
    tamarap2: I only have Resonate, but I'm going to buy the other one -


tamarap2: I have read some of the most juvenile naughty love poems- if your going to write crude sing song poems with rhymes like those of a fifth grade poem then skip it folks. I have seen one writer that gets it. All the rest do nothing to promote the quality of the site. For God's sake, just think before you write people. Love muscles, and throbbing sticks, and my cave of love- my g spot for heavens sake. Hey, I'm all for sophisticated erotica, but not for such bad predictable trite and unimaginative writing. I know my limitations and therefore would not attempt this prompt. Many of you should have done the same.


tamarap2: Mary Oliver has a new book of poetry-and I have just forgotten the title. There is an article on her in this months Oprah
    nancyjam: Do you mean "Thirst"? Looks like a good one. -
    tamarap2: No, I'll find the name. I had it, but I forget what the name is -


tamarap2: Reviewers should look up words before making corrections. Jeese
    tamarap2: solicitude-a state of anxiety-not supposed to be solitude LOOK IT UP PEOPLE-PLEASE -
    Jotting Pen: Lord, that made me giggle. I could just imagine some wonderful sentance mix ups caused by that word confusion. -
    BeccaInaDaffydill: I agree; besides, sometimes we can make up words, though if I had a dictionary downloaded to my brain, I might not have to :-) -
    tamarap2: oh well, what can you do, really? I guess I should have put it in my author notes so there was no confusion. And I loved the sentence :( It captured exactly what I wanted to say -
    tamarap2: Bush was the ultimate when it came to making up words- strategery, and recruitaments are two of my favorite -


tamarap2: I adore Salzburg. The Alps are an inspiration.


tamarap2: Without doubt, my favorite poet is Mary Oliver. I can not seem to quench my thirst for her, nor do I want to. She is beyond magnificent. She is my inspiration as of late with Divinity,The Maple, and The Tree. If only...


tamarap2: I seem to be drawn to trees when it comes to my poetry. I need to expand my horizon. I just love trees, though.
    another jim: How about expanding it to include shrubs?! Just think of all the cool rhymes you could use: tub, carob, hubbub, scrub, pub, cherub... -
    tamarap2: Mmmm Interesting. I love fresh green weeds in dark moist soil, as well. Have jotted down a few notes re: this -
    DALLAS01: I always said when I die I want to come back as a tree on top of a mountain. -


tamarap2: I learned that all writers can vote in any contest, but it seems like most of the time only those writers who have entered are the ones voting. Which sucks, when you look at the big picture. It would be nice if an email could be sent out explaining that all votes are welcomed. :)
    redrider6612: Unfortunately, the site doesn't permit any communication requesting votes. We have been campaigning Tom (site admin) to put a box on the welcome page with a list of contests currently in the voting booths. -
    shelley kaye: i don't vote in any contests i have entered.... -
    another jim: Honestly, tamarap2, I see a lot of inconsistency in the voting patterns on FanStory. (Listen to me...I sound like a freakin' pollster at election time! LOL!)

    Some contests seem to bring out the voters, and some do not. I've seen haiku contests with 18 entries and 40-50 votes; but I've also seen contests where a dozen short stories will elicit barely a dozen votes. Go figure, huh?

    If there's a pattern, it's that the easier the entries are to read--i.e., the shorter in length they are--the more voters turn out. It's a lot like reviews: the shorter pieces (usually poetry) seem to garner more reviews, especially in comparison to something like a 4,000-word short story. Not ALWAYS true, of course, and there are clearly exceptions; but that seems to be the tendency.

    Not necessarily good or bad, mind you. It's just human nature, I reckon, to take the path of least resistance...

    But I agree with Red, too: it would be nice if there were a better (read: more noticeable) way to draw attention to what's up for a vote. -


tamarap2: Does anyone agree that five star ratings on this site are a dime a dozen. I am always so grateful and excited to receive positive feed back, however I welcome knowledgeable well informed criticism...because I need it.
    another jim: A dime a dozen? Lucky you. I paid twenty bucks for my last five-star rating... -
    tamarap2: That's funny. And you can also manipulate recognized statuses if you spend the money to raise your poem up to where reviewers get more dollars. I feel that the top six poems featured on the site are not always the greatest, they just offer the most bucks. Some of the featured poems are better. I like the site and I have learned here, but I'm not so sure that a poem being recognized or given an all time best is based on the quality of the work -
    another jim: "I feel that the top six poems featured on the site are not always the greatest..."

    You're exactly right, tamarap2. Many reach the top simply by being heavily promoted by their authors. Period. Quality has nothing to do with it. There may be some pretty good pieces that wind up there, but it's not necessarily because they're good. It's probably because they've been (here it comes) heavily promoted.

    "... I'm not so sure that a poem being recognized or given an all time best is based on the quality of the work."

    Right again. Those little recognition devices ('Recognized' and 'All Time Best') are largely earned by receiving a certain number of reviews from other members.

    Still a terrific site, and a wonderful place to practice one's writing...as long as you keep your perspective and understand how things work.

    You should visit the FanStory Forums, if you want to participate in some spirited discussions on this very subject. -
    --Turtle.: I'd rather have less stars and a review that tells me where I'm going write and wrong, then a bunch of fives. So yes, the percentage is high for fives. -
    tamarap2: I have gained some perspective since joining in May and concur with both of you. After giving the site a lot of thought, I am going to remain true to myself and not sell out in order to get more reviews. It is easy to see that five stars are common place (although I will not deny that I prefer them over something lower) and that a Recognized status and an All Time Best can be bought. Therefore, I'm going to continue to enjoy and learn from those few who want to read and review my poetry. I have found that I bask in the "words" of a glorious review more than in a five star rating. -
    tamarap2: Oh, I must add that when I have received a five plus rating from a writer who is talented and knowledgeable...that feels great! -
    noland: "You have to tell the truth in poetry. You have to be willing to say what you think, and be wrong, and fall on your face, and have jaded sophisticates laugh at your naivete, and have cool populists laugh at your pompous elitism. Whatever, dude. You have to respect the deep seriousness of the act of writing a poem and be willing to stand behind what you have written."

    "That's all we have in poetry land: the truth. We are not well paid, and we are not respected in our land or time, but we can tell the truth. We don't have to accede to the hypocrisies and half-truths that surround us. We are not driven by a market economy whose rewards bend and corrupt us. That's a great gift and worth the economic trade off." --- Campbell McGrath -
    tamarap2: Jaded sophisticates intimidate me. -