Comment from tfawcus

Exceptional

A well-reasoned essay with good supporting arguments. I'd be giving you a six for the structure and flow of this in any case, but I also happen to agree with you. Teaching moral values in school is fine - they are very similar in all of the major world religions. Indoctrinating children with a particular religion is quite another matter - and has no place in the State School curriculum.

 Comment Written 18-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 18-Dec-2018

Thanks for the most thoughtful comments, Tony. And, of course, for the stellar rating.

I was among the many who were extremely annoyed when Mr Abbott decreed our schools would receive financing for religious chaplains, but not for properly trained social workers and counsellors. I understand this ridiculous approach is ongoing.

Most grateful,
Craig

Comment from Bill Schott

Excellent

I guess I'm kept off balance as to whether this is a humor piece or a stand for keeping religion out of public schools. I figure it's the latter, as it is so feared that some teacher might radicalize some young man or woman into making a decent life choice. I found it difficult teaching literature as so much relates to a knowledge of the Bible, but students have little information because they've never been to church and schools fear being sued by an irate parent.

The separation of church and state simply means that Congress or the President can't force you to be one religion or another. This, of course, based on, and as a guard against the church tyranny experienced in England.

 Comment Written 18-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 18-Dec-2018

It's both. The difficulty many experience is this: there is no evidence to suggest adherence to this one religion that adherents want forced upon every child produces better life choices. In fact, there's ever growing evidence to the contrary.

What the "put God back in schools" advocates suggest is exactly what you have just indicated the First Amendment forbids -- forcing someone to be one religion or another. How else is teaching about a particularly god exclusively and mandating prayers to a particular god in school to be interpreted?

Comment from apky

Excellent

Thanks for such a rare and thoughtful write on this site.

It only remains for me to wish you all the best with the contest.

The idea of the one true god went out the window - at least for me - the minute humankind landed on the moon. To this day, heaven seems not to exist, this place I was told was his home where I'd meet and get to dwell with him, sans a mum, of course. Now all sorts of stuff float out there sending pictures, assisting phones and TV and sending back sounds... Poor chap has no home no more.

 Comment Written 18-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 18-Dec-2018

Are you suggesting he's a vagrant? That won't go down well. Good folk can't tolerate such :)

Thanks for the most thoughtful comments, they're much appreciated. Craig

Comment from Santiago2

Exceptional

An excellent piece using a mix of common sense examples and just enough humor to support your argument. I especially like your observation that those who lobby to put God back in schools want "their" god in schools, exclusively. Very well done. Good luck in the contest.

 Comment Written 17-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 17-Dec-2018

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my work, the thoughtful, well-considered comments, the delightful rating and the good wishes. All are very much appreciated. Craig

reply by Santiago2 on 17-Dec-2018

You're welcome!

Comment from country ranch writer

Excellent

All throughout life we have all prayed to God and no one ever said a word about it. In the harbor, stands the Statue of Liberty says everyone is welcome into our country no matter what their beliefs are. So why now is everyone causing grief. "We all believe in the same God," just in different ways. We all pledged allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. If you don't want to become an American go back to where ever you come from simple as that!

 Comment Written 17-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 17-Dec-2018

So one can't be an American unless they subscribe to your religion? Where are you planning on sending the people who were born there who don't subscribe to your views? By the way, my article said nothing about praying to whomever or whatever you like in your own home, or in a gathering of like minded people... oh wait, yes it did, it said I defend that right. But no one has the right to inflict their views on the minds of other people's children.

reply by country ranch writer on 17-Dec-2018

I did not say that there are many religions here in America and they all pray in their own way don't try to make it into something than other than people should have the freedom to believe. You want to be an American adapt to OUR ways that have served our forefathers from the beginning of time. Love they neighbor not bring hate into our world. People want to destroy our country wake up before it is too late to keep your freedom.

reply by country ranch writer on 17-Dec-2018

The price of freedom doe not come free!

reply by the author on 17-Dec-2018

I'm glad we cleared that up. People should have the right to believe... OR NOT. And they should have the right to pray to whomever or whatever they like. Lastly, they shouldn't have one flavour of God shoved down their throats in schools. I'm happy we reached agreement :)

reply by country ranch writer on 17-Dec-2018

I don't get involved in politics as it is too wishy-washy for me to them it is all abought the almighty dollar and to hell with the people. We need to preserve our freedom. Just saying.

Comment from Gloria ....

Exceptional

Well as always, Craig you write an exceptional essay. I think schools are already overburdened with all the "additional" things they take or are forced to take responsibility for. Schools are for teaching skills that will enable students to live to their potential as much as their environment will permit. When God is involved, there are just too many people with different ideas and it would be a huge collection of mismatched expectations. Education does need to be looked at, as it is most inefficient these days, so I guess the long of short of it is, I don't know.

But what I do know is this is very well written. :)

Gloria

 Comment Written 17-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 17-Dec-2018

Thanks so much for the wonderful comments and rating Gloria. Quite apart from anything else, the expectations on schools on top of their traditional role of teaching the curriculum are, to my mind, getting out of hand. They don't need the extra burden of doing what parents and churches should be doing. Most grateful, once again. Craig

Comment from lyenochka

Excellent

Thanks for sharing your well written and entertaining essay on this topic. You and I are of different beliefs as I do belive in the Triune God (not the one you listed but Father-Jesus-Holy Spirit). Since the 1970's prayer (to the Christian God) was removed from public schools in the U.S. They have allowed student-initiated religious groups. But 50 years ago, there were very few religious options. Now we have many more Moslems, Buddhists and Hindus and you're right, we couldn't possibly teach accommodating every possible religious belief.

 Comment Written 17-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 17-Dec-2018

I appreciate the kind and thoughtful reply, Helen; even though, as you say, we believe differently. Personally, I would be OK if it was Thor.

I'm just kidding!

Many thanks,
Craig

reply by lyenochka on 17-Dec-2018

:))

Comment from Ulla

Excellent

Hi Craig, I read your essay with great interest. Well I must say that the question as to whether religion should be included in the school curriculum, then I would say, no it shouldn't. It should be on a voluntary basis. In a modern world with all the immigration it's an impossible task anyway. What religion to be taught when you have a school full of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and what else. Just my opinion of course.
Being Danish, How can you say that Thor, the God of thunder should not be taught? Hehe. I love when he swings his hammer every time he's angry...
Good luck. All the best. Ulla:))

 Comment Written 16-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 16-Dec-2018

Now, Ulla... I know that forever, we have been taught that Thor is a Norse God. And yes, for reasons I've never really stopped to think about, he's right up there at or near the top of the heap of my favourite superheroes. However, I have to correct you. Thor is Australian. His "civilian" name is Chris Hemsworth ;-)

Thanks for the great comments!

Craig

Comment from BeasPeas

Exceptional

Hi Craig. Please pardon my long-winded review. This is an excellent essay. You've touched upon some good points.

I have mixed feelings about God in schools. Although I prefer to get my spirituality in my own religion/church, many kids don't have any guidelines at home, therefore no moral compass. They seem to grow up like wolves (with wolves probably having more family structure than some humans). At least for the time they're in school they may have some guidelines to proper behavior.

But what you say is true, too. Does prayer in school open the doorway for ANY god? Can the student substitute whatever deity he/she chooses--why not? The only one offended is the atheist or agnostic. Now what about them? Well, it's like once the Supreme Court in the U.S. opened the door for gays to marry (and I have many gay friends and love them) it then begs the question--where do you draw the line? Does that mean anyone can marry anything? Like in my BOT story--this is one of the points made--now humans may marry AI because of that ruling. A farmer may marry his favorite cow--whatever.

Too much responsibility is taken away from the parents in schools these days--like sex education--as you mention. This should be handled at home, but willy-nilly conglomerations of households may not be able to provide proper sex ed so that's why the schools have stepped in.

There are too many threads to tie together in one package within your essay, but having said all that, I think schools should do what they were hired to do in the first place. That is limit their scope to educate on reading, writing and arithmetic and back off all the other stuff including their own spin on politics. Schools have become liberal institutions which is not cricket. Either present both POV or say nothing at all that may be construed as political bias. Amen. Marilyn

 Comment Written 16-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 16-Dec-2018

Hi Marilyn,

I really appreciate it when you take the time to consider what I've written, whether or not you agree totally with it, so please don't apologise for having something to say. And I won't apologise for responding (I hope with respect) ;-)

You speak of "guidelines for proper behaviour". I agree that kids should all, without exception be given these, what I don't accept is that God or religion have anything to do with being decent humans.

You suggest:

"The only one offended is the atheist or agnostic." I seriously doubt this. I'm sure Muslims would be offended if the Christian God were made an obligatory part of school life. Just as I'm certain Christians would be outraged if prayers to Allah were mandated. Ditto for Hindus, Jews... anyone whose particular god didn't get the nod.

I can't accept the slippery slope argument that allowing gay marriage opens the door to bestiality or anything else. Legalising gay marriage opens the door to gay marriage -- that's it. I don't know of a single same-sex marriage advocate who has suggested that now it's legal, laws should be introduced to allow people to sleep with their pets. This whole argument is based on the assumption that homosexuality is "wrong".

I do very much appreciate you offering your views. I take is as a compliment, because to me it means you trust me not to give you grief over them, even if I disagree. I am also very grateful for the wonderful rating.

Cheers,
Craig

reply by BeasPeas on 17-Dec-2018

Hi Craig. I said it badly, I think. I DO agree with the two things you mention in your reply to my e-mail. No one wants to have to pray or pretend to pray to anyone else's God.

Secondly, as mentioned, I have dear friends who are gay, even transgener. I'm okay with that. Have always had gay friends--men and women. Not judgmental at all. Again, I said it badly. Sometimes in e-mails the meaning is not as clear as speaking face-to-face.

My point on this topic is an observation, also shared by others, that once the courts have a "loophole," they usually use it to make future rulings. It sets a precedent. Therefore, if marriage has been opened by law to other than a man and a woman (which it has been in the states), then if someone challenges the law because he/she wants to marry anything else (let's say a human wants to marry his/her robot, cow, multiple partners) it can be ruled acceptable based on the first change in the marital law combinations. As a matter of fact, in Futurism it is predicted that Misty could marry BOT as Nigel has married Aida, for example.

So, basically, we agree with each other.

My big thing really is that teachers should ONLY teach and NOT expand to impose their belief system on students whether it be religious, sexual, or political. In most U.S. schools--grade school on upward to colleges/universities, conservative students MUST keep their views hidden or risk failing. I know this because I, myself, and family members and friends were warned to SHUT up, withdraw from the course or fail. This is 100% true. Bias should be grounds for dismissal of any teacher who violates this. You can bet if the shoe were on the other foot, there'd be hell to pay. Marilyn

Comment from LIJ Red

Excellent

I think it's all part of the plan. If we indulge in enough wars and genocides, the population crisis will go away. No need to promote abortions and gay love, just help Him(Them) trample out that vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored...I think all gods should be studied, but none dominate the curriculum...excellent non fiction article...

This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.

 Comment Written 16-Dec-2018

---

reply by the author on 16-Dec-2018

Thanks very much for the thoughtful comments. I appreciate them :) Craig