Comment from Wabigoon

Excellent

Deniz22--
Thanks, this is an interesting topic. I have read critiques of the Book of Job stating or arguing that Job is, in fact, the superior moral being here because of God's willingness to make a bet with Satan in the first place and secondly for His, God's willingness to sit by and watch the destruction of Job and his family. I, for one, do not believe that God or anyone else can return precisely what was take from Job, rather...things of similar or possibly equal value. To me, at least, this behavior demonstrates brazen pride on God's part. If a human engaged in this sort of bet he would be judged evil.

Just finished a very interesting book called The Alphabet and the Goddess by Leonard Shlain and was simply astonished by the near total negativity of Martin Luther's assessment of human kind, all human beings -- that our lives are predetermined and that predetermination is that all but an "elect" few are going to hell, be damned, no matter what good works they perform. It is predetermined.

Then there was John Calvin, that wonderful fellow, who punished those who missed church three Sundays in a row by death in his The Kingdom of God on Earth city of Geneva, Switzerland.

To say nothing of St. Augustine, the founder of the whole predetermination catastrophe.

All in all I think that's a pretty formidable barbwire fence to make it through to come to the conclusion God has anything other than contempt for us. I think you have managed to find some quotes that argue for some softening of this hard line point of view.

I would think the paucity of examples of God actually praising his creation would make one wonder about worshipping a being so stingy with praise.

What father would treat his kids like that? An emotional abuser.

Thanks
Wabigoon/Jeff


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 Comment Written 08-Aug-2015

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reply by the author on 08-Aug-2015

Hey thanks! I couldn?t agree more re Calvinism and the Reformers. Their awful attack on the character of God comes from an elitist view of the intellectual few. IOWs, very few people had access to the scriptures in their time. One had to be able to read Greek, Hebrew and Latin to read the bible. All of these men were brilliant and highly educated. Such things go to a person?s head and though they helped in many ways to make the bible accessible to the masses, nevertheless, the fatal flaw of Calvinism was poured into the river of truth and many are still affected by it.

How different today! We have translations galore to ignore!  I would just encourage you to keep on reading as you have definitely picked up on the flawed thinking of the so called ?Reformers?! Remember, they were all first ?educated? in religion by the Roman Catholic Church and though they broke away from its bondage, they nevertheless still didn?t depart from many of its errors.
Back to Job; calling this a ?bet? between God and the Devil as to whether or not Job would break is, I think, trivializing what actually went on. Here?s my take for what it?s worth. God is far superior in intelligence than Satan and simply allowed the situation to unfold to prove Job, improve Job and reprove Satan?s evil assumption that Job was only loving and serving God because of what was in it for him. Sorry this so long, but it?s nice to meet a thinking man on this subject even though I am not sure where you stand on Jesus Christ By that I mean, do you believe He is the Son of God?died for our sins?rose in a real body on the third day. God bless, Dennis

reply by Wabigoon on 08-Aug-2015

Deniz--
I will put it this way. I think Christ absolves God of the sin of betting, "gambling" on the nature of Job. Job is, in my opinion, stronger than "God," stronger in his faith in human goodness than God or satan, stronger in his righteousness. I do not think Christ is needed to forgive the sin of human beings who absolve God of his gambling with human souls.

Thanks for your reply.

Wabigoon/Jeff

reply by the author on 08-Aug-2015

Hi Jeff, Do you want to continue talking about this or are you completely happy with the concept of God you now have? I have more to offer but will defer to your wishes. Sincerely, Dennis

Comment from Lesley Collier

Exceptional

A wonderful discussion on whether we are up to the praise of God and how we should strive to live our life's for that praise as much as possible. Backed up by scriptures of the Bible, the author promotes the value of living a good life worthy of God and the everlasting belief in his son Jesus. Well written, researched and a valuable discussion to those of us who wish to live up to God's worthy praise!

 Comment Written 08-Aug-2015

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reply by the author on 08-Aug-2015

Thank you Lesley for reading and then commenting so kindly on my efforts. Grace allows stumbles and the possibility of spiritual growth as we walk with Christ who made it all possible through His death and resurrection! Dennis