More Grist to the Mill
Viewing comments for Chapter 22 "Firm Conclusions - 1925"Book 2 of the Cleeborough Mill Trilogy
31 total reviews
Comment from Bettyanne Twigg
Your views are well reasoned and clear. I may not agree with them all, but I will reread them again and again in case I missed something.
It is like hearing a private conversation and being too uncouth to resist. Beautifully crafted. Than you. Bettyanne
reply by the author on 26-Mar-2021
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Your views are well reasoned and clear. I may not agree with them all, but I will reread them again and again in case I missed something.
It is like hearing a private conversation and being too uncouth to resist. Beautifully crafted. Than you. Bettyanne
Comment Written 26-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 26-Mar-2021
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Many thanks for this review. The views of my characters are not necessarily the vies of the author. Lol.
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I understand. My own views are not so tidy. I put an old poem in place this morning to bring my poem total to four. Pretty raw but was fun at the time.
Comment from muffinmama
Another thoughtful and persuasive argument by Peter Allan in favor of adapting to new realities as they appear. He points out the importance of considering nuances and not simply judging based on accepted norms.
Thank you for such an interesting read.
reply by the author on 13-Mar-2021
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Another thoughtful and persuasive argument by Peter Allan in favor of adapting to new realities as they appear. He points out the importance of considering nuances and not simply judging based on accepted norms.
Thank you for such an interesting read.
Comment Written 13-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 13-Mar-2021
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Thank you for a very sound interpretation of this chapter in this six-star review. I am pleased you enjoyed it.
Comment from Sugarray77
True to form, Allen used this final chapter as a chance to deliver a summation of the philosophical side to this story. Your writing was good and did bring the different points together. Well done Jim.
reply by the author on 13-Mar-2021
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True to form, Allen used this final chapter as a chance to deliver a summation of the philosophical side to this story. Your writing was good and did bring the different points together. Well done Jim.
Comment Written 12-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 13-Mar-2021
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Thank you for another supportive review.
Comment from Pearl Edwards
I felt like I was in the Rector's living room listening to this conversation about Hettie's suicide and Allen's reasoning of why she did indeed take her own life. There was going to be nothing for her going forward, that she wanted out of life. Enjoyed this chapter as I sit in my living room sipping my afternoon coffee.
cheers
reply by the author on 12-Mar-2021
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I felt like I was in the Rector's living room listening to this conversation about Hettie's suicide and Allen's reasoning of why she did indeed take her own life. There was going to be nothing for her going forward, that she wanted out of life. Enjoyed this chapter as I sit in my living room sipping my afternoon coffee.
cheers
Comment Written 12-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 12-Mar-2021
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Many thanks for this review as well. Glad you enjoyed the quiet contrast from the previous chapter.
Comment from Pam (respa)
-That is a gorgeous image.
-It's supposed to be the
rector's home?
-A very good, philosophical
discussion with all kinds of
issues, from Hettie and Tom W.
to repercussions of one's actions
or thought process to the eventual
turning of the tide as the women's
suffrage movement comes into play.
-I think Allen had a very good point
about Hettie had she been able to
be supported by other women in that movement.
-But that is what history is all about, and
it just hadn't caught up with Hettie soon enough.
-A good job with Part I overall.
reply by the author on 11-Mar-2021
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-That is a gorgeous image.
-It's supposed to be the
rector's home?
-A very good, philosophical
discussion with all kinds of
issues, from Hettie and Tom W.
to repercussions of one's actions
or thought process to the eventual
turning of the tide as the women's
suffrage movement comes into play.
-I think Allen had a very good point
about Hettie had she been able to
be supported by other women in that movement.
-But that is what history is all about, and
it just hadn't caught up with Hettie soon enough.
-A good job with Part I overall.
Comment Written 10-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 11-Mar-2021
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Yes this one is set in the rectory and I found this on Pinterest in a section on 1925 interiors. I thought it fitted Charles Thorpe.
Thank you also for appreciating the underlying philosophies being examined here. They are central to the book as a whole
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It was quite fancy for that time period. You are very welcome for the review, and I appreciate your reply.
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Since this was a daytime meeting I wanted to get away from the brandy and cigars image.
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That was a good plan:)
Comment from Mary Kay Bonfante
This is an awesome chapter, and even waxes philosophical, without diverging substantially from the storyline. I actually know a man who is 70 years old, and is like a lost soul in this current world, rejecting our current technology, while at the same time, feeling left behind, and desperately wanting to return to the 1950s. Not everyone is that obvious in their lack of adjustment, but your discussion between the lawyer and the clergyman is quite incisive.
I don't actually know if there are still laws on our books (at least here in America) criminalizing suicide; while many major faiths, I believe, hold it to be a sin, or moral failure, the legal issue is a separate matter. It does seem absurd to treat it as a crime; such a person is already suffering, and has already sentenced himself or herself to the death penalty!
The more pointed issue in this very interesting chapter, is the finer distinctions of intent: suicide as a determined effort vs. suicide as a cry for help or an attempt to control -- this is a very astute observation. As someone who has been personally familiar with the temptation to do so in the past (in myself), and the act itself (in someone near and dear to me), I recognize the validity of this distinction.
In my relative who attempted it in the distant past, I saw the more serious attempt made: the individual, before treatment, had no remorse for their attempt, but the self-recrimination expressed consisted of the statement: "I failed." This person meant business. It was through the strong intuition and determined rescue attempts of others close to this person (as well as first responders) that death was avoided; I think of it as miraculous. This person has never overcome depression in the recent past, but at least regrets their past attempt, and appears willing to continue living. I know this is fairly long-winded and very personal, for a review, but I think it shows you that your chapter resonated with me and was thought provoking in a positive way. I also found no errors :-)
And I like that you quoted Kipling. When I was about 13, I think, my grandmother gave me a card with the poem, "If, for Girls," and I still treasure it. I don't think Kipling wrote that variation, but I'm familiar with the original "If," and find it inspiring.
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2021
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This is an awesome chapter, and even waxes philosophical, without diverging substantially from the storyline. I actually know a man who is 70 years old, and is like a lost soul in this current world, rejecting our current technology, while at the same time, feeling left behind, and desperately wanting to return to the 1950s. Not everyone is that obvious in their lack of adjustment, but your discussion between the lawyer and the clergyman is quite incisive.
I don't actually know if there are still laws on our books (at least here in America) criminalizing suicide; while many major faiths, I believe, hold it to be a sin, or moral failure, the legal issue is a separate matter. It does seem absurd to treat it as a crime; such a person is already suffering, and has already sentenced himself or herself to the death penalty!
The more pointed issue in this very interesting chapter, is the finer distinctions of intent: suicide as a determined effort vs. suicide as a cry for help or an attempt to control -- this is a very astute observation. As someone who has been personally familiar with the temptation to do so in the past (in myself), and the act itself (in someone near and dear to me), I recognize the validity of this distinction.
In my relative who attempted it in the distant past, I saw the more serious attempt made: the individual, before treatment, had no remorse for their attempt, but the self-recrimination expressed consisted of the statement: "I failed." This person meant business. It was through the strong intuition and determined rescue attempts of others close to this person (as well as first responders) that death was avoided; I think of it as miraculous. This person has never overcome depression in the recent past, but at least regrets their past attempt, and appears willing to continue living. I know this is fairly long-winded and very personal, for a review, but I think it shows you that your chapter resonated with me and was thought provoking in a positive way. I also found no errors :-)
And I like that you quoted Kipling. When I was about 13, I think, my grandmother gave me a card with the poem, "If, for Girls," and I still treasure it. I don't think Kipling wrote that variation, but I'm familiar with the original "If," and find it inspiring.
Comment Written 10-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2021
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A few years ago Kipling's 'If' was voted the best poem in the English Language by a mainstream radio programme's listeners. I doubt if academicians would concur with that but it is still very popular amongst the English middle classes. I haven't seen the girly version, but it sounds as if it might be fun.
Thank you for baring your soul in this review as the theme of suicide/attempted suicide is central to the whole trilogy as are the concepts of crime and sin, two things often divergent. That what I am saying in the books is appropriate from your point of view is most encouraging.
Thank you for spending so much time on this six-star review. It is much appreciated.
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You're very welcome, Jim, and thank you, also, for your gracious reply.
When I first read "If, for Girls," I wasn't aware of Rudyard Kipling's original "If," and I doubt my grandmother was either -- I think she just stumbled across it while shopping for birthday cards, yet chose well. She lived an amazing life, for a woman with an eighth-grade education! If she was born today, she would have achieved academic honors, and more.
Here's the "girly" version:
http://gracefulponderings.blogspot.com/2012/12/if-for-girls.html?m=1
I doubt Hettie would have agreed with every line, although it's something I think Heather might have liked. I didn't actually read the original version until much more recently, when it was quoted by a preacher I greatly admire, in a book he wrote about the suffering of Job. I was very impressed by the original poem (and by my friend's book, as well).
I've enjoyed this dialogue about the themes of your book series. May God bless you, my friend. - Mary Kay
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Thanks for the link. I just read it. I wonder what Meghan Markle would have made of that - or Oprah Winfrey for that matter. Lol.
There is a famous misquote of Kipling's original which was popular when I was in the Royal Marines in the sixties:
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you -
Perhaps you don't fully understand the situation!
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Yes, what would Meghan Markle think? It was a disgrace for her to be treated as she was. I'm so thankful that she didn't go the way of Hettie -- and that we didn't lose another unappreciated princess.
I can't even imagine where Oprah would begin, but personally, I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I love the Royal Marines' misquote of the poem! Very funny.
Nice profile pic, btw.
I'll have to make a note of that quotation. It's too good to forget.
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;))
Comment from Elizabeth Emerald
Congrats on your prize! (review updated)
Captivating--compelling dialog--skillful incorporation of the backstory--stunning conclusion, so to speak, insofar as it is the most convincing of sundry speculations
boyfriend ? sex?
were those words in use then in this region?
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2021
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Congrats on your prize! (review updated)
Captivating--compelling dialog--skillful incorporation of the backstory--stunning conclusion, so to speak, insofar as it is the most convincing of sundry speculations
boyfriend ? sex?
were those words in use then in this region?
Comment Written 09-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2021
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Thank you so much, not only for the compliments but also for advising further research on those two terms.
According to Webster 'Boyfriend' is quite venerable being just over a century old at this period (Born 1822). Even allowing for time spent crossing the pond, possibly with American soldiers in 1918. It would have been quite likely to have been established in UK by 1925. So I left it unchanged.
As far as 'sex' with the meaning 'to have sexual intercourse' is concerned you could be on firmer ground. I couldn't find any definite dates but I had a feeling that, used in that context, it was not around at the beginning of the sixties (when I was indulging for the first time) but was by the end of them, so I decided to make a change there.
I do appreciate that 'heads up', as anachronisms of any description in writing annoy me - even when it's Shakespeare.
Macbeth Act 2 Sc. 1(Historically this scene would have taken place in 1040 AD, some 300 years before the first striking clocks appeared in Britain.
FLEANCE: The moon is down. Hast heard the clock?
Comment from Carol Hillebrenner
I like your conclusion to end the story and look forward to your next book. I believe in my state attempted suicide is still a crime, but anyone who does it is immediately sent to a psychiatric ward. Therefore they are not responsible.
reply by the author on 09-Mar-2021
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I like your conclusion to end the story and look forward to your next book. I believe in my state attempted suicide is still a crime, but anyone who does it is immediately sent to a psychiatric ward. Therefore they are not responsible.
Comment Written 09-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 09-Mar-2021
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Thank you for the review, but this is not the end of this book, only the end of part 1 of book 2 of the trilogy. We shall be back with the start of part 2 tomorrow.
Comment from RetroStarfish
How satisfying, to end this part of the story where it began: in front of a hearth with the two men exchanging their views. While not definitively answering the "how or why" of Hettie's death, it is a more thorough examination of her actions in the context of the times.
And, thoroughly enjoyable.
reply by the author on 09-Mar-2021
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How satisfying, to end this part of the story where it began: in front of a hearth with the two men exchanging their views. While not definitively answering the "how or why" of Hettie's death, it is a more thorough examination of her actions in the context of the times.
And, thoroughly enjoyable.
Comment Written 09-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 09-Mar-2021
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Thank you so much for this review. I am pleased you found the chapter satisfying, and hope you will stay with the story into Part 2 next time.
Comment from Ulla
Well, society had to come to terms with what was happening. In many countries it took the Second World War for the men to realise that women had changed and their role in the world had changed. Just as so many other prejudices have changed during history and wars. I liked this chapter a lot. Proves my point of view, really. Ulla:)))
reply by the author on 08-Mar-2021
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Well, society had to come to terms with what was happening. In many countries it took the Second World War for the men to realise that women had changed and their role in the world had changed. Just as so many other prejudices have changed during history and wars. I liked this chapter a lot. Proves my point of view, really. Ulla:)))
Comment Written 08-Mar-2021
reply by the author on 08-Mar-2021
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Thank you for this supportive review. I am pleased you enjoyed the chapter.