How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 7 "Micro-Critting The Illusion Crashers"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
91 total reviews
Comment from dragonqueen1983
i enjoyed reading this, its well written and the language used is easy to understand. i didn't notice any errors so well done and keep on writing
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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i enjoyed reading this, its well written and the language used is easy to understand. i didn't notice any errors so well done and keep on writing
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Thank you for your kind remarks, dragonqueen1983 (Is 1983 your nickname?). I hope you took something out of it and that you continue on with the series.
Jay
Comment from pughwee
No flabby dialogue that doesn't actually move the story forward. Got it. Shouldn't be a problem for me as I steer very clear of fiction. My keyboard is allergic to it. Interesting piece here, with some good advice about dialogue tags. You made a point here that I keep telling my daughter obver and over, but I guess she doesn't think I know what I am talking about. I will flash your credentials in her face to impress her, so she can stop her annoying John / Betty dialogue tendancies.
Good job with this, and I really don't see anything needing attention...Pughwee
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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No flabby dialogue that doesn't actually move the story forward. Got it. Shouldn't be a problem for me as I steer very clear of fiction. My keyboard is allergic to it. Interesting piece here, with some good advice about dialogue tags. You made a point here that I keep telling my daughter obver and over, but I guess she doesn't think I know what I am talking about. I will flash your credentials in her face to impress her, so she can stop her annoying John / Betty dialogue tendancies.
Good job with this, and I really don't see anything needing attention...Pughwee
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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So kind ouf you, Pughwee, to want to flash my credentials to your daughter. To be fair to her, tell her I am an old insurance salesman who has been writing for 40 years (fiction instead of insurance policies.) BTW, what is it you do write, Pughwee? Poetry? Nonfiction?
Bless you.
Jay
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My work (if you can call it that), is almost exclusively humorous non-fiction. I have written one failed sonnet, and I think one fiction story other than that. Adventurous huh?...LOL.
Comment from rhymer1
I started to speed read this because I've already reviewed you prose and the style you've adopted for this series. However, even at 600 words-per-minute, I had to pause to compliment you on one entry, and to suggest a rethink of another.
Cheers, rhymer1
" ~ lost complete track of time? Neither have I ~" Me, yes. But not on FS
Illusion Crasher ~ a well coined phrase I will use to save time in future reviews. An illusion crasher is an automatic minus one star.
Lack of "speaker tags" can be "illusion Crashers" ~ rethink this and at least warn.
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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I started to speed read this because I've already reviewed you prose and the style you've adopted for this series. However, even at 600 words-per-minute, I had to pause to compliment you on one entry, and to suggest a rethink of another.
Cheers, rhymer1
" ~ lost complete track of time? Neither have I ~" Me, yes. But not on FS
Illusion Crasher ~ a well coined phrase I will use to save time in future reviews. An illusion crasher is an automatic minus one star.
Lack of "speaker tags" can be "illusion Crashers" ~ rethink this and at least warn.
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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You are the second person, rhymer1, who admits to having lost "complete track of time." I can only say I admire your focus. I admitted to the other of owning a bit of an attention deficit disorder. Not medically diagnosed, but self-recognized. This is why that very special "mystical connection" is so signal to my reading -- albeit for only perhaps a ten minute stretch. That ten minutes is my nirvana.
Are you saying I should warn the reader that lack of speaker tags can also be an illusion crasher. I'm asking because I'm not too sure what it is you think I should rethink. PLEASE do let me know. Andthankyoufornotspeedreadingthis. I 'm h o n o r e d t h a t y o u s a v o r e d s o m e o f i t . Just being silly...
Jay
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I think I've rated all the parts (I read) of the subject series of essays 5*, but the current part is more 5* than the earlier parts. A higher level of humor, more intelligence displayed, but more importantly, useful and witty. The others were FanStory 5*. This one meets a publisher's 5*.
As for your question: one of the most annoying "illusion crashers", for me, is to loose track of which character is saying what, particularly at a critical point in the story where the writer is apt to condense (laconicize?) his prose to punch up the pace.
Re losing track of time. I often read through the night when I stumble upon good novels or non-fiction. And, I?ve done quite a bit of amateur theater, but I DON?T ACT. I become the part I?m playing on stage. The one time I didn?t I was the male lead in Bermuda Avenue Triangle, and I panicked. Must have pulled it off, however, because the audiences liked it during the seven week run, and two reviewers praised my performance. Mmmmm. Based on those comments, I should examine whether or not my whole life has been lived in a state of suspension of reality:<))
Cheers, Allister
ps in case you thought I was redundant above, I distinguish carefully between ?humor? and ?wit?.
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Damn those FanStaory question marks!
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So I did read it rightly. And I agree with you 100 %. Not knowing who is speaking can be a major illusion crasher. I think it's all a matter of balance and good common sense on the part of the writer. The writer has the voices in his mind as he does dialogue and the history and thought processes of the characters. He may forget that the reader doesn't possess this knowledge.
Thanks for that clarification.
Jay
Comment from Lady Jane
This is so interesting and full of wisdom and insight. I appreciate the illumination of tags..I am guilty of their abuse, okay, I was guilty. Fanstory has helped!!! Thanks for sharing this with us. Janelle
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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This is so interesting and full of wisdom and insight. I appreciate the illumination of tags..I am guilty of their abuse, okay, I was guilty. Fanstory has helped!!! Thanks for sharing this with us. Janelle
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Thank you so much, Janelle, for your kind words. I hope you plan to stay with us for the entire series. I'd love to have you.
Jay
Comment from nor84
Hi, Jay
I couldn't find any spags in this, and boy do I sometimes see this kind of dialog when I'm reviewing. I hope I never write it. You and a couple of others are writing essays on writing -- I think that's great, and I hope some of the new writers will read them.
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Hi, Jay
I couldn't find any spags in this, and boy do I sometimes see this kind of dialog when I'm reviewing. I hope I never write it. You and a couple of others are writing essays on writing -- I think that's great, and I hope some of the new writers will read them.
Comment Written 07-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Thank you for your observation and your kind words. I try to confine my series to the reading end of it, but most have wisely pointed out that when one does the one he does the other. Thanks again...
Jay
Comment from Tweedypie
All I've got to say is when you finish this book, you ought to be one of the top writers here. LOL. Thank you for sharing this with us. I enjoyed reading it. I'm looking forward to the next one.
Best wishes.
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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All I've got to say is when you finish this book, you ought to be one of the top writers here. LOL. Thank you for sharing this with us. I enjoyed reading it. I'm looking forward to the next one.
Best wishes.
Comment Written 07-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Tweedypie, my FS crits aren't complete until I hear from you. Thank you, my dear, for hanging with me thoughout the whole series.
Jay
Comment from Lady & Louis
A good, interesting addition to the book, Jay!
I look forward to some comment on illlusion crashers (good term) such as anachronistic dialogue. Some writers seem to think that everyone has always spoken as if they were inhabitants of 20th century America...
I find that dialogue like a more interesting version of the conversation in your example can have one use - it might not drive the plot forward but it can illuminate the characters. I do the odd vignette like that, just for the pleasure of having Louis and Geoffroi talking to each other.
There was one writer who took a wicked glee in being an illusion crasher - Laurence Sterne, in Tristram Shandy.
Cheers
La Ma
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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A good, interesting addition to the book, Jay!
I look forward to some comment on illlusion crashers (good term) such as anachronistic dialogue. Some writers seem to think that everyone has always spoken as if they were inhabitants of 20th century America...
I find that dialogue like a more interesting version of the conversation in your example can have one use - it might not drive the plot forward but it can illuminate the characters. I do the odd vignette like that, just for the pleasure of having Louis and Geoffroi talking to each other.
There was one writer who took a wicked glee in being an illusion crasher - Laurence Sterne, in Tristram Shandy.
Cheers
La Ma
Comment Written 07-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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So good to hear from you, Louise. And, thanks for the kind words and the suggestion. I'll see if I can fit that in. I had planned on discussing the reality of colloquial language. Perhaps I can contrast it with anachronistic dialogue. It might be a natural. If I can bring it off would you mind if I quoted your stuff? BTW, how did your letter go. I didn't hear from you after my last comments. Thought you were mad at me.
Jay
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"Mad at you" - my goodness, no! I'm sorry if I gave that impression, I thought I had replied... I was very grateful for your help!
I have got that sub letter done, it's just writing the synopsis that's come to a grinding halt. As has the second book... no inspiration whatever for developing it.
In fact, I've been bitten by the poetry bug. My portfolio is awash with poems about Louis, now!
I'd be honoured if you want to quote my stuff about les garcons... I'm assuming the quotes aren't in a "don't do this!" sense lol!
Cheers as ALWAYS Jay,
La Ma :)
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My goodness, no! You are the grande dame of FanStory. You may correct my French or Spanish or whatever I tried to write that in, but it will mean the same: Yours is the standard to which I measure the superbly articulated sentence.
Jay
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Egad, sir! If you feel a heat wave, that's me blushing!
Louise :D
Comment from Signaler
Hello Jay, Wonderful! Your essay has shaken me, woke me up to what another writer has been gently teaching me, about dialogue. tags and such. You can't know how important this has been to me. You keep me reading from start to finish each time I come across one of these essays. More importantly, I learn something new each time. I am a poet, not a novelist, but I have chosen to try to write my first novel here on FanStory. Can't think of better people to learn from. Thanks so much. You have earned this six.
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Hello Jay, Wonderful! Your essay has shaken me, woke me up to what another writer has been gently teaching me, about dialogue. tags and such. You can't know how important this has been to me. You keep me reading from start to finish each time I come across one of these essays. More importantly, I learn something new each time. I am a poet, not a novelist, but I have chosen to try to write my first novel here on FanStory. Can't think of better people to learn from. Thanks so much. You have earned this six.
Comment Written 07-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Whoa, Signaler -- I am stunned, not entirely by the 6er, which is wonderful (and I thank you!) but I am always humbled by words such as yours. It is so wonderfully satisfying to know that something I have learned and passed on is finding an audience. Allow me one more healthy THANK YOU, my friend!
Jay
Comment from Cairn Destop
I do agree with you, useless dialogue has a way of dragging the life out of a story. You might need the dialogue, but when an author edits it down to its essentials, as you put it, a careful selection of wording, you can enthrall your reader. I will say you confused me with the line below and now am not certain if you were being accurate or satirical. My hope is satirical.
Have you ever been so enrapt by a piece of fiction that you've lost complete track of time? = far too many times. I honestly feel sorry for you if you're telling the truth, that no story has ever moved you enough that you felt part of the story.
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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I do agree with you, useless dialogue has a way of dragging the life out of a story. You might need the dialogue, but when an author edits it down to its essentials, as you put it, a careful selection of wording, you can enthrall your reader. I will say you confused me with the line below and now am not certain if you were being accurate or satirical. My hope is satirical.
Have you ever been so enrapt by a piece of fiction that you've lost complete track of time? = far too many times. I honestly feel sorry for you if you're telling the truth, that no story has ever moved you enough that you felt part of the story.
Comment Written 07-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Thank you Cairn. I can always count on you cutting through the hype and hyperbole and slashing your way to the point. I was not being entirely satirical. I've often thought I have a bit of an attention deficit disorder. I have seen, and admire the hell out of, people who can walk down the street (on the sidewalk, of course), with their faces buried in their open books. I would have my attention divided between the words bouncing up and down on the page and where the curb was and how far to the nearest signal. Also, I would be emotionally divided, wondering if someone was watching me, thinking me weird. Okay? But, even when I'm home and at my desk my attention is only at about 70 percent. Reading or writing, I must have a radio on in the background. I hum along sometimes.
On the other hand, I do feel or "experience" glimpses of that state I spoke of where I have a sort of dual feeling-attention, reader/writer connection. It is intense for the length of time it occurs. But that time span, alas, is probably 10 minutes tops.
I hope I clarified some of my additional thoughts. I do appreciate you my friend.
Jay
Comment from IamSpook
Hello jaysquires,
Very interesting and worth reading. The question of how to write a dialogue ending with a question mark is often confusing. My English professor preferred to do it this way:
"Can't you ask me an intelligent question, then?" asked Betty.
Betty asked, "Can't you ask me an intelligent question, then?"
Best Regards,
Mark
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Hello jaysquires,
Very interesting and worth reading. The question of how to write a dialogue ending with a question mark is often confusing. My English professor preferred to do it this way:
"Can't you ask me an intelligent question, then?" asked Betty.
Betty asked, "Can't you ask me an intelligent question, then?"
Best Regards,
Mark
Comment Written 07-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 07-Feb-2007
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Thank you, Mark, for your kind words and also the bonus bit of advise -- thanks to your prof. You are appreciated.
Jay