How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 7 "Micro-Critting The Illusion Crashers"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
91 total reviews
Comment from Alex in BC
JAYSQUIRES,
Thank you. Note to self, don't ramble on with dialogue -- though I'm pretty good that way.
I liked your examples and your new ILLUSION technology;
I is for do not Interrupt the reader;
L is for Listen to your speaker;
L is for Leave-out unnecessary dialogue;
U is for Understand your reader's pattern;
S is for Slant the dialogue to the message;
I is for Include only items which are important;
O is for Omit tags;
N is for Natural dialogue is OK as long as it pertains.
Thanks,
Alex
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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JAYSQUIRES,
Thank you. Note to self, don't ramble on with dialogue -- though I'm pretty good that way.
I liked your examples and your new ILLUSION technology;
I is for do not Interrupt the reader;
L is for Listen to your speaker;
L is for Leave-out unnecessary dialogue;
U is for Understand your reader's pattern;
S is for Slant the dialogue to the message;
I is for Include only items which are important;
O is for Omit tags;
N is for Natural dialogue is OK as long as it pertains.
Thanks,
Alex
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Superb, Alex -- Superb! I can't get over how you managed all the important points under that brilliant umbrella. Thank you. A real thumbs up crit.
Jay
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Thanks, but it's not that hard to do with good material.
I am sure you know this. You can make a technology-word out of most anything. I have been told, do not use dirty words, for obvious reasons, or body parts -- it just gets too funny.
Give 'er a try, take and word and go for it.
Thanks again for your work,
Alex
Comment from Sue-z-Q
Hi Jay:
Perhaps using magical as a synonym for mystical would give the same connotation without evoking ideas like sorcery or witchcraft. I would call a work magical if it held my interest to such an extent I didn't want to put it down or couldn't wait to get back to it.
Later on you did use 'magic.' Also illusion and engaging. Writing must employ qualities like these if the writer hopes to hold the reader's interest.
Any writing, Fiction especially, should definitely start with a hook in the very first paragraph.
I think the main reason I read fiction is because I want to escape reality, to be transported away from my humdrum existence to another time and place. It's not a case of losing track of time. It's just a case of choosing to not be conscious of it. I think I see a difference there.
I agree with you about using dialog tags. You've read enough of my fiction to know I detest and avoid using them unnecessarily. I'm proud to say, the most commonly used dialog tags, he or she said, NEVER appear in my fiction. Where others use them, I see opportunities to describe a characters action, reaction, feelings or mood and strengthen the tension, conflict, or whatever, in a scene.
Both of your dialog examples leave much to be desired. They are simply voices coming out of thin air. It's like reading an outline for a story. You cannot hold the reader's interest if they cannot see the characters and the scene in their mind's eye. Unfortunately, this is the way many writers leave it and never go through it again to embellish the story's scenes and flesh out the characters. Therefore, they create a dull, uninteresting story. On the other hand, I get accused of doing too much of that. It seems one simply cannot win.
Well, now you have my take on this posting. If I've missed the mark or am way off base, do say so. Although I did see a few rough sentences, they weren't really spags. Just differences of opinion, so I let them alone. If you're like me you'll edit this work another dozen times, anyway, and catch them then.
Keep posting these interesting insights and I'll stick with you.
Your fan, Sue-z-Q
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Hi Jay:
Perhaps using magical as a synonym for mystical would give the same connotation without evoking ideas like sorcery or witchcraft. I would call a work magical if it held my interest to such an extent I didn't want to put it down or couldn't wait to get back to it.
Later on you did use 'magic.' Also illusion and engaging. Writing must employ qualities like these if the writer hopes to hold the reader's interest.
Any writing, Fiction especially, should definitely start with a hook in the very first paragraph.
I think the main reason I read fiction is because I want to escape reality, to be transported away from my humdrum existence to another time and place. It's not a case of losing track of time. It's just a case of choosing to not be conscious of it. I think I see a difference there.
I agree with you about using dialog tags. You've read enough of my fiction to know I detest and avoid using them unnecessarily. I'm proud to say, the most commonly used dialog tags, he or she said, NEVER appear in my fiction. Where others use them, I see opportunities to describe a characters action, reaction, feelings or mood and strengthen the tension, conflict, or whatever, in a scene.
Both of your dialog examples leave much to be desired. They are simply voices coming out of thin air. It's like reading an outline for a story. You cannot hold the reader's interest if they cannot see the characters and the scene in their mind's eye. Unfortunately, this is the way many writers leave it and never go through it again to embellish the story's scenes and flesh out the characters. Therefore, they create a dull, uninteresting story. On the other hand, I get accused of doing too much of that. It seems one simply cannot win.
Well, now you have my take on this posting. If I've missed the mark or am way off base, do say so. Although I did see a few rough sentences, they weren't really spags. Just differences of opinion, so I let them alone. If you're like me you'll edit this work another dozen times, anyway, and catch them then.
Keep posting these interesting insights and I'll stick with you.
Your fan, Sue-z-Q
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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You know I'll keep posting as long as I have the scrutiny of your incisive commentary. Thank you so much. You've earned my thumbs up (isn't this the second time?) for the effort and the intelligence you throw into your crit. Good job, my dear.
Jay
Comment from sandramarie
I enjoyed this chapter, Jay. It's chock full of good information,
and it's entertaining. I like your style of writing, though, I think if
someone doesn't understand your humor, you may come off as a bit
patronizing. Just throwing that in for your consideration. ;-)
I'm looking forward to the next installment.
Take care,
Sandy
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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I enjoyed this chapter, Jay. It's chock full of good information,
and it's entertaining. I like your style of writing, though, I think if
someone doesn't understand your humor, you may come off as a bit
patronizing. Just throwing that in for your consideration. ;-)
I'm looking forward to the next installment.
Take care,
Sandy
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Thank you Sandy, especially for the bit of advise. Many have told me I come off as patronizing. Vastly more have thanked me for injecting humor into my writing, since it makes the subject more palatable. Then, here's the kicker: one person accused me of not taking the subject seriously enough, since I often turn my humor against myself.
So, here is the composite image I've divined for the reader:
I'm standing on the stage, looking out on the FanStory audience. My pants are down and I am clutching in both hands so many rejection slips that some are floating to the floor. I open my mouth and proclaim to the cheering throng, "As you all can see, it is obvious I am an intelligent, handsome, well-endowed individual who is a successful writer and amply qualified as an insurance salesman to advise each and every one of you [making a grand sweeping gesture with my muscled arm] on how to write your stories and someday be as successful as I."
Sandy, I hope you don't think that little bit of fluff I just wrote is commentary on what you said. I TRULY appreciate your observation. Believe it or not, I appreciate all of the crits I get. But, I think you will agree that if I assigned the same weight of "truth" to all of them, where would I be?
Love ya, girl...
Jay
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You make a very good point. I'm sorry I mentioned it, because I
really do enjoy your sense of humor!
Sandy
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Don't you dare be sorry you mentioned it. I really do want honest and unvarnished feelings. I value your crits -- really!
Jay
Comment from Guy Anthony De Marco
Good chapter, and it's nice that you let the reader see how you work and how you think.
I agree with your dialogue tag statements, but sometimes writers need to anchor the dialogue to a particular speaker. I've seen many examples with eight to ten non-anchored dialogue lines, and I get lost as to which person is speaking. This is another 'illusion crasher'. If I have to stop and back up, there goes the bond between writer and reader. Even if it's anchored with stagework, it helps.
As far as the little smalltalk goes, sometimes it is needed to show how a speaker is trying to avoid a subject, so I don't think that's a hard-and-fast rule. It is a good thing for an author to keep in mind.
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Good chapter, and it's nice that you let the reader see how you work and how you think.
I agree with your dialogue tag statements, but sometimes writers need to anchor the dialogue to a particular speaker. I've seen many examples with eight to ten non-anchored dialogue lines, and I get lost as to which person is speaking. This is another 'illusion crasher'. If I have to stop and back up, there goes the bond between writer and reader. Even if it's anchored with stagework, it helps.
As far as the little smalltalk goes, sometimes it is needed to show how a speaker is trying to avoid a subject, so I don't think that's a hard-and-fast rule. It is a good thing for an author to keep in mind.
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Wow! Thank you Guy Anthony, for your insight. It is the reason I'm awarding you a thumbs up. You are the second person who suggested that lacking of speaker tags can cause illusion to be crashed into. I gave him a thumbs up, too. You two will have to fight it out in the trenches. Yes, there's room for small talk, too, but when a character is trying to avoid a subject, the writer is using small talk to develop that aspect of the character's problem. It is a devise for driving the plot forward. It isn't flab. You are amazingly incisive. It's appreciated.
Jay
Comment from bookishfabler
You have a unique way of writing yourself. This may be why I keep coming back to you. As I read this piece, I did skip over the dialogue dribble part, "yo, bla, bla, bla." Nice show of boring conversation. Also, as I read your piece, irealized that you would be a perfect candidate to post on my multi-author book. A Novel Idea. Basically, I posted this because of writers like yourself, who have a lot to say about writing. Not about reviewing, but the art form of writing a novel or short works. I'm not asking for a review. I just think you would be perfect to add a chapter.
At the same time(,) he should pray the reader will be forgiving.
Hope you join us. This is one of your better critter chapters.
Peace & hugs
bookishfabler
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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You have a unique way of writing yourself. This may be why I keep coming back to you. As I read this piece, I did skip over the dialogue dribble part, "yo, bla, bla, bla." Nice show of boring conversation. Also, as I read your piece, irealized that you would be a perfect candidate to post on my multi-author book. A Novel Idea. Basically, I posted this because of writers like yourself, who have a lot to say about writing. Not about reviewing, but the art form of writing a novel or short works. I'm not asking for a review. I just think you would be perfect to add a chapter.
At the same time(,) he should pray the reader will be forgiving.
Hope you join us. This is one of your better critter chapters.
Peace & hugs
bookishfabler
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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First of all, thank you for your wonderful comments. Much appreciated. Would you give me the details on your project. It seems I've critted one of the multi-author pieces -- a mystery or thriller, I believe. Let me know, okay? I'll make the suggested correction (I agree with it) when I finish this batch of "thank-yous" -- to which I owe you one more for finding that nit.
Jay
Jay
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Hi Jay.
No this is the first time I tried a multi-author book. Yes you have crit some of my work in the past, maybe my novel, but This is something else.
I had an idea to start A NOVEL IDEA, so Fanstorians and myself could add chapters regarding writing a novel. In other words. How to write a plot, how to develope characters, how to organize, Right now, I just started it with a simple chapter on getting the idea. An introduction of sort. I want to post other chapters on Plotting or characters, etc. But in the meantime, I hope others will add their experiences. I am not on here as oftern , I work full time as a chef and I'm taking classes, so, I can only do this when I have a moment of Free time. THanks for asking. If you have time, take a quick peek and see if your interested.
Hugs
book
Comment from snowy
The rating says it all, jay! Thank you for having the "guts" to be straightforward and honest with the authors on this site!
Nothing could be worse than to receive a "cushioned" review, because someone wants to receive that in return. Either an author wants to improve or not!
I agree. For most readers, dialogue is what keeps the novel moving, portraying, more than any other mode in fiction writing, the inner workings of the characters. How the characters relate verbally can reveal the level of intelligence, social background, and emotional status. Yes, expository writing could do the same, but bore, bore, bore!
Yet, a balance must be maintained between all the modes. Too much of any one could lose the reader. The craft of writing is just that; learning to balance, finding the rhythm, hearing the music of the language.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, and I wish you many blessings in the New Year.
snowy
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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The rating says it all, jay! Thank you for having the "guts" to be straightforward and honest with the authors on this site!
Nothing could be worse than to receive a "cushioned" review, because someone wants to receive that in return. Either an author wants to improve or not!
I agree. For most readers, dialogue is what keeps the novel moving, portraying, more than any other mode in fiction writing, the inner workings of the characters. How the characters relate verbally can reveal the level of intelligence, social background, and emotional status. Yes, expository writing could do the same, but bore, bore, bore!
Yet, a balance must be maintained between all the modes. Too much of any one could lose the reader. The craft of writing is just that; learning to balance, finding the rhythm, hearing the music of the language.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, and I wish you many blessings in the New Year.
snowy
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Thank you, snowy, for your close read and pointing out the balance that is needed and should have been stated in this chapter as it has in previous ones. Mentioning that gives you a "thumbs up" from me. Better than getting the finger! Thanks again...
Jay
Comment from Plaid
Another great piece on writing advice - thanks so much for sharing. This articles are very helpful.
I thought it would be nice if you could include examples of the "correct" way that illustrates the principles.
I also had a few other minor suggestions:
forward movement of the plot can, in reality, [be got on with] = suggest rephrase
Tell him, while you are at it, that if he has the need [is] to demonstrate this proposed = this sounded awkward; remove "is"?
Nice job! Thanks for sharing,
Cheers,
Plaid
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Another great piece on writing advice - thanks so much for sharing. This articles are very helpful.
I thought it would be nice if you could include examples of the "correct" way that illustrates the principles.
I also had a few other minor suggestions:
forward movement of the plot can, in reality, [be got on with] = suggest rephrase
Tell him, while you are at it, that if he has the need [is] to demonstrate this proposed = this sounded awkward; remove "is"?
Nice job! Thanks for sharing,
Cheers,
Plaid
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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I'm getting used to saying this to you: "Thanks for your kind words -- and your incisive commentary," and I'm liking it! I'm not sure where that "is" came from. Kinda bounced your attention right outa the text, didn't it? I'll have to check it out after I finish all my "thank yous." One more to you.
Jay
Comment from joboofoo
Thank you very much, this was very enlightening. It is sure to help those, such as myself, just learning the technical stuff of writing. This was very informative and I think I need to read the rest of your book to fully understand what you are trying to say.
This was an excellent read, no errors of awkward wording to speak of, great work.
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Thank you very much, this was very enlightening. It is sure to help those, such as myself, just learning the technical stuff of writing. This was very informative and I think I need to read the rest of your book to fully understand what you are trying to say.
This was an excellent read, no errors of awkward wording to speak of, great work.
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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That was so nice of you joboofoo (there's gotta be a story there, in that name). I'd be thrilled to have you read the rest of them. And stay aboard; more to come.
Jay
Comment from marion
Hi jaysquires
Thanks for the tips. It is always great to read these stories where one can learn just what is right and wrong in writing. I have printed this out to read again for better understanding....For me, I acutally like seeing in examples, the wrong way and then, simply straight underneath, the right way. I learn more from this than any long description of what to do and what not to do. Or clearly, a short paragraph on what is required and then a 'sample' of that....Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I hope to catch more of your work in this line. Marion.
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Hi jaysquires
Thanks for the tips. It is always great to read these stories where one can learn just what is right and wrong in writing. I have printed this out to read again for better understanding....For me, I acutally like seeing in examples, the wrong way and then, simply straight underneath, the right way. I learn more from this than any long description of what to do and what not to do. Or clearly, a short paragraph on what is required and then a 'sample' of that....Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I hope to catch more of your work in this line. Marion.
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Thank you, Marion, for your kind commentary. Yes, I know what you mean about pointing out the flaws and not have examples of how it should be. Kinda like going to the doctor who tells you you have a big tumor in your belly and thanks for coming and on your way out will you send in the next in line. Huh? Problem, though, with showing what is the correct way to write a scene of dialoge, for example, is that it would vary with each individual writer. That's what makes writing such a thrilling experience.
Thanks again...
Jay
Comment from Deano
I've told another author the same thing: This is my favorite stuff to read on Fanstory. The nuts and bolts. As a lifelong writer, I'm ashamed to say I'm ignorant of certain rules. The ones of which I am aware I learned intuitively. Re: the mystical connection. I liken it to a movie. What is that magic a huge hit can have and a failure does not? Quality has an engaging energy. And you're right, it has a lot to do with creating a reality and committing. Anyway, instead of pontificating, I just want to say...fascinating to read. Thanks.
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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I've told another author the same thing: This is my favorite stuff to read on Fanstory. The nuts and bolts. As a lifelong writer, I'm ashamed to say I'm ignorant of certain rules. The ones of which I am aware I learned intuitively. Re: the mystical connection. I liken it to a movie. What is that magic a huge hit can have and a failure does not? Quality has an engaging energy. And you're right, it has a lot to do with creating a reality and committing. Anyway, instead of pontificating, I just want to say...fascinating to read. Thanks.
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Deano, I want to thank you for the wonderful example from an art form outside of writing. And you are absolutely right. Wherein lies the magic? Is it in the acting, the story, your emotional mind-set when you watched it, whether the particularly buttery popcorn added just the right mood? Or the camera angle that the director chose at the last moment, on an intuitive hunch? The importance is the mystical connection, though, isn't it -- everything in that rare moment.
Thank you so much for your kindness, Deano.