How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 7 "Micro-Critting The Illusion Crashers"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
91 total reviews
Comment from GrandmaSharon
Thank you for another lesson in writing fiction. We can't get too many lessons, in my opinion and these little mini-lessons are packaged just right.
God bless you
Sharon
reply by the author on 13-Feb-2007
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Thank you for another lesson in writing fiction. We can't get too many lessons, in my opinion and these little mini-lessons are packaged just right.
God bless you
Sharon
Comment Written 13-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 13-Feb-2007
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Thank you so much, Sharon, for your continued support. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I hope you stay aboard for future editions.
Jay
Comment from Adora Bayles
Are you saying these two friends meeting on the street need some sort of physical contact, such as surprising him with a basketball pitched at him suddenly only to pitch it right back into the pitcher's face and laughing about it, or something like a high five. The dialect is good but I am with you. It ain't goin' much of anywhere. I agree with you wholeheartedly on speaker tags. Too many can be distracting. Another distraction for me is misuse or misspelling of words. I lose interest quickly if a story begins that way on the first page.
I've been off for a while but have two stories on the way. Watch for Perdita, a brand new Western for a contest whose deadline is this Tuesday. Oops! I'd better get busy.
Great work as usual
Adora
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2007
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Are you saying these two friends meeting on the street need some sort of physical contact, such as surprising him with a basketball pitched at him suddenly only to pitch it right back into the pitcher's face and laughing about it, or something like a high five. The dialect is good but I am with you. It ain't goin' much of anywhere. I agree with you wholeheartedly on speaker tags. Too many can be distracting. Another distraction for me is misuse or misspelling of words. I lose interest quickly if a story begins that way on the first page.
I've been off for a while but have two stories on the way. Watch for Perdita, a brand new Western for a contest whose deadline is this Tuesday. Oops! I'd better get busy.
Great work as usual
Adora
Comment Written 11-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2007
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Thank you, Adora, for reading and adding your commentary to my crit. I always appreciate hearing from you. I'll keep my eyes peeled for your story, Tusesday.
Jay
Comment from L K Pinaire
This is excellent. I loved every word. I will go back and try to catch up, but I've been so busy with rewriting 2 novels and remodeling my house and teenagers! Great stuff.
Good writing,
Larry
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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This is excellent. I loved every word. I will go back and try to catch up, but I've been so busy with rewriting 2 novels and remodeling my house and teenagers! Great stuff.
Good writing,
Larry
Comment Written 09-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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Larry, wow!, I am dumbfounded! Thank you so very much for that high honor. You're a busy man. Good luck on your novels and remodelling your teenagers.
Jay
Comment from AK
Hello Dear Jay,
Long time no critter-speak,
Nice to read some more writing/critting techniques all in a spirit of fun and camaraderie.
Thanks for sharing an informative write and have a happy Valentine.
Sincere blessings,
Ami:)
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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Hello Dear Jay,
Long time no critter-speak,
Nice to read some more writing/critting techniques all in a spirit of fun and camaraderie.
Thanks for sharing an informative write and have a happy Valentine.
Sincere blessings,
Ami:)
Comment Written 09-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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Thank you, Ami, for your kind words. And, yes, there's no reason it has to be stodgy and heavy reading. I like to make it fun.
Thanks and please stay aboard.
Jay
Comment from Lokman
I read this a couple of days ago and was unsure what i thought about it, so I'm reading it again, and am still unsure.
In all honesty, I don't think it's quite as clearly explained as what you've done in the past.
The point is obvious, in that you want writers to be aware of how they screw up the connection between the text and the reader.
I think the first section, discussing speech tags and how to not use them, then demonstrating how else the writer can indicate who's speaking was well done.
It's the second part that I'm not getting. I almost feel that you used such an extreme example for unnecessary dialogue that I end up not getting your point.
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue, such as I created above, can grow into something profound if it is not terminated by their shared denial and their subsequent departure, but is allowed to go to its natural, gulf-narrowing conclusion at which one reaches a brotherhood of understanding and acceptance
This part above is where I get stuck and can't find my way past. I simply don't understand what you're trying to say. If you have the time, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Okay, looking past that. Perhaps the simplicity of your message, and I mean that in a good way, is what you say. Every word needs to be chosen carefully for maximum effect and engagement with the reader. Is that it?
Shea
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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I read this a couple of days ago and was unsure what i thought about it, so I'm reading it again, and am still unsure.
In all honesty, I don't think it's quite as clearly explained as what you've done in the past.
The point is obvious, in that you want writers to be aware of how they screw up the connection between the text and the reader.
I think the first section, discussing speech tags and how to not use them, then demonstrating how else the writer can indicate who's speaking was well done.
It's the second part that I'm not getting. I almost feel that you used such an extreme example for unnecessary dialogue that I end up not getting your point.
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue, such as I created above, can grow into something profound if it is not terminated by their shared denial and their subsequent departure, but is allowed to go to its natural, gulf-narrowing conclusion at which one reaches a brotherhood of understanding and acceptance
This part above is where I get stuck and can't find my way past. I simply don't understand what you're trying to say. If you have the time, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Okay, looking past that. Perhaps the simplicity of your message, and I mean that in a good way, is what you say. Every word needs to be chosen carefully for maximum effect and engagement with the reader. Is that it?
Shea
Comment Written 09-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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Thank you, Shea, for your close reading and detailed explanation of where the confusion lies. First of all, I had hoped I conveyed one thing in the rather arcane and puffed up speech of the fictional writer of that dialogue: that was the fact that he was justifying his characters' lack of direction in their conversation. In other words, that the dialogue was not moving the plot forward -- but that the writer was trying (and I hoped failing) in his quasi-profound defense of their meaningless prattle. Secondly, though, I was trying to show how it is easy to get sucked into accepting high-sounding pseudo-logic by using myself as the example of one being duped.
That said, I'm afraid I overstated the problem and should have used the danger of being seduced by an idea for a discussion of a loftier subject instead of the misuse of dialogue. Also, I am embarrassed over how many more critters here might have taken that bombast as my personal statement of belief. That gives it exactly the opposite meaning of what was intended.
Thank you Shea (I always forget your given name) for taking the time to zero in on the rust and debris mixed in with the nuts and bolts.
Jay
Comment from mjesecina
Dear jaysquires!It was really interesting to read your work and deep minds.I prefer the part that told about relationships among the people.I absolutely agree with you.It was pleasure to meet you.Mjesecina
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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Dear jaysquires!It was really interesting to read your work and deep minds.I prefer the part that told about relationships among the people.I absolutely agree with you.It was pleasure to meet you.Mjesecina
Comment Written 09-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 09-Feb-2007
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The pleasure is all mine, mjesecina. I appreciate your taking the time to stop by and read this chapter. I hope it encourages you to stay aboard.
Jay
Comment from Rogue Rider
Thanks for a carefully-thought-out chapter on an important writing subject. I can't claim I understood everything you talked about here, but what I understood I agreed with, and I strive in my own writing to follow those principles.
Now, my main "crit" would be this: you're a bit too wordy, and the grammer is slightly halting (it doesn't read smoothly in some places). Here are a few other comments I hope are useful:
exacting synonym (what is an exacting synonym?)
the writer's tireless quest to find a willing prisoner who is eager to be shackled to the movement and pulse of his message (nice)
what the reader needs to bring to the story. These have to do with his recognition of (you went plural, and knocked me off the flow)
being in the right mind-frame, and energy level, and such environmental (two and's right after commas)
as diaphanous as a curtain (many curtains aren't diaphanous at all)
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue (no commas needed - they slow it down, and you want to maintain the mental flow of comprehension)
can be crashed into. (this is, in my opinion, an awkward way to end a sentence)
Thanks again.
Rogue Rider
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reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Thanks for a carefully-thought-out chapter on an important writing subject. I can't claim I understood everything you talked about here, but what I understood I agreed with, and I strive in my own writing to follow those principles.
Now, my main "crit" would be this: you're a bit too wordy, and the grammer is slightly halting (it doesn't read smoothly in some places). Here are a few other comments I hope are useful:
exacting synonym (what is an exacting synonym?)
the writer's tireless quest to find a willing prisoner who is eager to be shackled to the movement and pulse of his message (nice)
what the reader needs to bring to the story. These have to do with his recognition of (you went plural, and knocked me off the flow)
being in the right mind-frame, and energy level, and such environmental (two and's right after commas)
as diaphanous as a curtain (many curtains aren't diaphanous at all)
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue (no commas needed - they slow it down, and you want to maintain the mental flow of comprehension)
can be crashed into. (this is, in my opinion, an awkward way to end a sentence)
Thanks again.
Rogue Rider
This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Hey Rogue Rider -- thank you for a most welcome and incisive commentary. I printed it out and will be taking it to the text tonight (It's almost closing time here at the office). I like the intuitive feel to your crit, particularly "And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue (no commas needed - they slow it down, and you want to maintain the mental flow of comprehension) " I have a hunch you have hit several nails on their several heads. I'll know for sure later. Thanks, my friend.
Jay
Comment from nora arjuna
This is much shorter than the rest, Jay, kind of leaving me like - what? It's the end already?
OK...
- use speaker tags only to prevent confusion
- leave out unnecessary dialogues
Oh, you've nicely summarised the points here, and I don't think there's a better, clearer way of expressing them.
"There is no place in a well-intentioned story for non-pertinence in dialogue, for flab, for waste. Every word should be carefully chosen to play its part in moving the storyline forward."
Till next course, thanks a lot. Will try to remember the rules in my writing.
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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This is much shorter than the rest, Jay, kind of leaving me like - what? It's the end already?
OK...
- use speaker tags only to prevent confusion
- leave out unnecessary dialogues
Oh, you've nicely summarised the points here, and I don't think there's a better, clearer way of expressing them.
"There is no place in a well-intentioned story for non-pertinence in dialogue, for flab, for waste. Every word should be carefully chosen to play its part in moving the storyline forward."
Till next course, thanks a lot. Will try to remember the rules in my writing.
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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I'm in a reading mode, arjuna... What can I read of yours? Any more sexy stuff, lol? Thank you for your kind words. I always appreciate them.
Jay
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I have two work on promo now, Jay:
Dearest Father - a letter to my father
Love, Deception And Betrayal - latest chapter to my book, Web of Love.
I hope you read this and check on my dialogues. Lots of them in here. Need guys' opinions here. You can have access to this from the home page under Today's Top Books. Otherwise, just click my portfolio.
Er, no sexy stuff for the moment. :) Will let you know when I feel like writing it.
Comment from IndianaIrish
Hello to my favorite critter! I get so excited when I see your work waiting to be read--I know I'm going to learn something to help me improve and make my work better. I'm thankful that you give examples because it helps me to understand and makes it easier to apply. I must confess that I skipped over your blah blah blah dialogue and laughed when you knew I would.
You also got me thinking about the magic--it's like music that touches your soul. Some songs get to you from the first few notes, they hook you from the start. Some songs "grow on you", others get you so wrapped up in the music that you miss the words, and others are so perfect that they make your top ten favorite list--the music, the words, the arrangement, and the emotion it stirs inside--the combination of all the aspects are so good that you don't have a reason why you love it so much. Good writing is like that to me. Does that make sense?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and expertise, Jay. I'll be here for #8.
Smiles
Indy :>)
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Hello to my favorite critter! I get so excited when I see your work waiting to be read--I know I'm going to learn something to help me improve and make my work better. I'm thankful that you give examples because it helps me to understand and makes it easier to apply. I must confess that I skipped over your blah blah blah dialogue and laughed when you knew I would.
You also got me thinking about the magic--it's like music that touches your soul. Some songs get to you from the first few notes, they hook you from the start. Some songs "grow on you", others get you so wrapped up in the music that you miss the words, and others are so perfect that they make your top ten favorite list--the music, the words, the arrangement, and the emotion it stirs inside--the combination of all the aspects are so good that you don't have a reason why you love it so much. Good writing is like that to me. Does that make sense?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and expertise, Jay. I'll be here for #8.
Smiles
Indy :>)
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Does it make sense, Indy? Perfect sense. I'm so glad you used another of the arts to demonstrate the magic. Great is great regardless of the medium! Thank you for your input. This was short, but I had to cut the original in half or I would have been cutting the readers in half. I'll have the rest sometime in the next couple of weeks -- after I've built up enough bucks and pumps to keep it at the top.
Looking for you there...
Jay
Comment from Eldora
Your Microcritting the Illusion Crashers left my mind reeling. So much information to cram into one small brain! Have to read such a well-thought-out article twice to assimilate all the excellent advice. There's no end to the education we "wannabe's" receive here on Fanstory. Thank you, Professor!
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Your Microcritting the Illusion Crashers left my mind reeling. So much information to cram into one small brain! Have to read such a well-thought-out article twice to assimilate all the excellent advice. There's no end to the education we "wannabe's" receive here on Fanstory. Thank you, Professor!
Comment Written 08-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 08-Feb-2007
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Professor.... My! Thank you Eldora, for your wonderfully kind thoughts. I am always so moved by knowing that someone is getting something out of my series. Please come back.
Jay