How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 10 "Sweet Exegesis"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
81 total reviews
Comment from IndianaIrish
Hello Jay! Sorry it's taken so long to review your latest chapter...and what an amazing chapter it is. You've taken the blinders off and really allowed me to see the whole thing behind POV writing. What an incredible job you're doing, Jay. Smiles...Indy :>)
reply by the author on 23-Mar-2007
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Hello Jay! Sorry it's taken so long to review your latest chapter...and what an amazing chapter it is. You've taken the blinders off and really allowed me to see the whole thing behind POV writing. What an incredible job you're doing, Jay. Smiles...Indy :>)
Comment Written 23-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 23-Mar-2007
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Whoa, Indy, you caught me in my unprepareds. But not my unappreciateds. Thank you so very much for your confidence. It means more to me than you know coming from someone I admire so highly.
Jay
Comment from Lois Delaney
Very good jaysquires!! You got me interested in this analysing a short story. I have one picked out and I just love it. it will be the one I will use but I do have one by Alice Munroe too.
I think this will prove to be an exciting excercise! I will re-read my short story when I go on a trip at the beginning of April and try to disect it as you suggest.
I ususally write in first person pov! I feel comfortable with it thus far but sooner or later I will have to try another pov.
Great piece here. Always look forward to what you will have to share next time.
reply by the author on 18-Mar-2007
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Very good jaysquires!! You got me interested in this analysing a short story. I have one picked out and I just love it. it will be the one I will use but I do have one by Alice Munroe too.
I think this will prove to be an exciting excercise! I will re-read my short story when I go on a trip at the beginning of April and try to disect it as you suggest.
I ususally write in first person pov! I feel comfortable with it thus far but sooner or later I will have to try another pov.
Great piece here. Always look forward to what you will have to share next time.
Comment Written 18-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 18-Mar-2007
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Thank you, Housemaid. It is so gratifying to have someone actually use the principles that apply in the chapter. I'll be looking forward to how it works for you.
Jay
Comment from Charmane
This is really deep. I tried to hang tight. In depth and inspiring. Very information amd packed with imaginative scenarios. Action and plenty of gusty language. Different kind of title, but I like it because it is different. Motivating and enjoyable.
Thank you for sharing!
reply by the author on 17-Mar-2007
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This is really deep. I tried to hang tight. In depth and inspiring. Very information amd packed with imaginative scenarios. Action and plenty of gusty language. Different kind of title, but I like it because it is different. Motivating and enjoyable.
Thank you for sharing!
Comment Written 17-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 17-Mar-2007
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I appreciate having you drop by Charmane and taking the time to read the chapter in such depth. I think you'll like the next one. I'm not finished with it yet, and I'm trying to earn enough "bucks" to promote it adequately. So, it'll probably be a few weeks before posting. Keep an eye out for it, okay? And thanks again.
Jay
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I WILL KEEP AN EYE OUT!
Comment from butchiesmom
You've given me some things to think of. I started a book, over ten years ago, but didn't go past the second chapter, mostly because I had only a vague idea of what was going on. I've gone back over the first chapter and found what bothered me about it. I'd started at the wrong place. The right place was outside with the male companion chopping wood, not inside, with the woman in labor, the midwife and her assistant. As soon as I keyed it into the chapter, I knew it was right.
I doubt it will ever be finished, since I have only a vague idea of what's going on or how the third chapter will advance the story, but the second chapter is suddenly ready to be edited/written.
Boy, did I digress, lol.
Ok, as I stated above, I read your story/essay/lesson in two sittings, supper wouldn't cook itself. I can, however, go right back to where I left off and get just as lost as I was before I had to put the book/story down. If need be, I can easily backtrack and get what's going on.
Anyway, your point of view character made me realize I don't have one yet, lol. It's written in the third person right now (I think that's it). I really need to stop going off on another tangent!
Your advice was well written. Easy to read, understand and enjoy though I usually skip something like this. You start out with a synopsis of the previous chapters and don't go into the body of the work until you've finished the synopsis. Once into the main body of your work, you don't digress (as I tend to do) from the lesson being given. You explain each character from their point of view (I think) and give reasons why it wouldn't work as the point of view or what I call the narrator.
This ends with questions, everyone writing or planning to write a book, a good author should ask about their work.
I didn't see any kind of error (I was looking) to distract me from the subject at hand. It's a pleasure to read something, anything, which has no distractions and is well written and logical.
Unfortunately, I'm long-winded, so I'll end this with a hearty "You done schwell!"
Great job, jaysquires!
Gail
reply by the author on 17-Mar-2007
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You've given me some things to think of. I started a book, over ten years ago, but didn't go past the second chapter, mostly because I had only a vague idea of what was going on. I've gone back over the first chapter and found what bothered me about it. I'd started at the wrong place. The right place was outside with the male companion chopping wood, not inside, with the woman in labor, the midwife and her assistant. As soon as I keyed it into the chapter, I knew it was right.
I doubt it will ever be finished, since I have only a vague idea of what's going on or how the third chapter will advance the story, but the second chapter is suddenly ready to be edited/written.
Boy, did I digress, lol.
Ok, as I stated above, I read your story/essay/lesson in two sittings, supper wouldn't cook itself. I can, however, go right back to where I left off and get just as lost as I was before I had to put the book/story down. If need be, I can easily backtrack and get what's going on.
Anyway, your point of view character made me realize I don't have one yet, lol. It's written in the third person right now (I think that's it). I really need to stop going off on another tangent!
Your advice was well written. Easy to read, understand and enjoy though I usually skip something like this. You start out with a synopsis of the previous chapters and don't go into the body of the work until you've finished the synopsis. Once into the main body of your work, you don't digress (as I tend to do) from the lesson being given. You explain each character from their point of view (I think) and give reasons why it wouldn't work as the point of view or what I call the narrator.
This ends with questions, everyone writing or planning to write a book, a good author should ask about their work.
I didn't see any kind of error (I was looking) to distract me from the subject at hand. It's a pleasure to read something, anything, which has no distractions and is well written and logical.
Unfortunately, I'm long-winded, so I'll end this with a hearty "You done schwell!"
Great job, jaysquires!
Gail
Comment Written 17-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 17-Mar-2007
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Thank you, Gail... you done butche proud. I do so much appreciate the extra closeness with which you read this chapter. I hope it helps some. Please catch the next one which will go into more depth.
Jay
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I'll be looking for it!
Comment from Scaramouche
Very interesting presentation. Just so happens that I have been struggling with this POV concept. This has been so helpful that I will check out some of the other installments.
You have an energetic writing style. I enjoyed the pace.
Thanks for sharing!
Scaramouche
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Very interesting presentation. Just so happens that I have been struggling with this POV concept. This has been so helpful that I will check out some of the other installments.
You have an energetic writing style. I enjoyed the pace.
Thanks for sharing!
Scaramouche
Comment Written 16-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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I'm so happy, scaramouche, that you'll be able to get some good out of the chapter. It is very warming to have readers tell me they benefit from what I wrote. Please stay tuned, won't you?
Jay
Comment from rivki1111
Hi....good work here. I enjoyed your writing and it read with a good flow. I noticed no spelling or grammar errors and the spelling etc...technical stuff looked clean, making for a smooth read. Thanks for sharing your writing, it was a pleasure to read and review, cheers, rebekah
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Hi....good work here. I enjoyed your writing and it read with a good flow. I noticed no spelling or grammar errors and the spelling etc...technical stuff looked clean, making for a smooth read. Thanks for sharing your writing, it was a pleasure to read and review, cheers, rebekah
Comment Written 16-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Thank you Rebekah, for your kind words. I hope you plan to stay aboard for the remaining installlments. I need input from good writers like you.
Jay
Comment from IamSpook
Hello jaysquires
I found this very interesting. You put a lot of thought into what you do and it shows. The detaiuls concluding with the questions help the reader to recognize how they can improive. Good job.
Best Regards,
Mark
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Hello jaysquires
I found this very interesting. You put a lot of thought into what you do and it shows. The detaiuls concluding with the questions help the reader to recognize how they can improive. Good job.
Best Regards,
Mark
Comment Written 16-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Thank you so much for your kind words, Mark. I hope this won't be the last time I see you reading these chapters. I get valuable input from people like you -- and I appreciate it more than you know.
Jay
Comment from tecate
They only allow five at this time, but in my heart you deserve many more. I wonder, do many people appreciate what you are giving us? They must realize that your framework, once filled out could be the next best seller because of their particular talent and delicious characters presentation...Tecate
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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They only allow five at this time, but in my heart you deserve many more. I wonder, do many people appreciate what you are giving us? They must realize that your framework, once filled out could be the next best seller because of their particular talent and delicious characters presentation...Tecate
Comment Written 16-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Tecate, this is the kindest crit I've gotten since I started this book. It brings tears to this old man's eyes, knowing that you are getting something out of the culmination of my 40 + years of experience. All has not gone for nothing. Bless you for your generous thoughts!
Jay
Comment from Sissy
Hi Jay,
I liked this one a lot. It reminded me of my creative writing class in college, where we used to rewrite stuff from other's POV, just to get the hang of how limited some character's abilities were at telling the full story! Good stuff!!
Some things to consider:
This is not the time to look up an unfamiliar word (its meaning can probably be figured out by its context), or to stop reading, (<--consider eliminating this comma) midway through (consider eliminating this 'it', since you use 'it' a lot--> it), to feed the dogs or mow the lawn.
You'll want to do this because (don't think you need-->as you are reading - I think we know what you mean, and it shortens/tightens this sentence up a bit.) it's important to try to stay uninterruptedly in touch with what your feelings are telling you.
Try to become aware of a tone that is nosing (that noses?) into the story as you read.
Ben, the father, who became a Walker Brothers route salesman after losing everything in a silver fox raising venture, takes his daughter and son, one Saturday (his wife declining to go), on his route. (See if you can rephrase, a bit run-on. Maybe: Ben, the father, became a Walker Brothers route salesman after losing everything in a silver fox raising venture. One Saturday, he takes his daughter and sun on his route (his wife declines to go). I actually don't like the parentheses, but it's your call there.)
That is the skeleton that gives the story its posture, the bones and ligaments that hold it upright (the bones and ligaments holding it upright - gets rid of a 'that'). To expand the metaphor, the flesh, the meat that fills (filling out) out the story is more the function of character, while the skin, the casing that holds the flesh together and against the bones, can ('that' attack! 'that' attack! 5 'that's here.)
In this inquiry, as with all aspects of the story's deep-level analysis, we need to make an assumption that is so easily shunted aside as obvious that we could easily overlook its significance. It is the assumption that the writer is responsible for each decision, miniscule or major, that he makes in the story. While we would like to think that each decision was mapped out in advance, the truth is that many are happy (and some not-so-happy) accidents (6 'that's here.)
Though he is nameless, too, and his age indeterminate,(I think you implied earlier that you had to guess her age, so this is not necessary--> as is his sister's,) I would put him at between five and seven.
I would have wallowed around inside his head and worked very hard to convince the reader, and even Ben, himself, that his wife has given up on him the moment he failed in his silver fox pelt venture, that (instead of this 'that', try 'and' or start an new sentence here. A bit long.) now she is ashamed, humiliated over his route sales job; she is deeply, profoundly ashamed of him.
He knows that the children are really a safety net for him.
(He knows the children are his safety net. Gets rid of the that, and the 'for him'.)
He'd leave for home, secure in his mind that nothing had happened, yet full knowing that nothing would be quite the same. (two 'that's)
The whisky, (<--Jay, this was in the exerpt from the book, so I wasn't sure if Alice Munroe had spelled 'whiskey' as 'whisky', but thought I'd point it out.)
If you want a rereview, give a holler!
Take care,
Sissy
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Hi Jay,
I liked this one a lot. It reminded me of my creative writing class in college, where we used to rewrite stuff from other's POV, just to get the hang of how limited some character's abilities were at telling the full story! Good stuff!!
Some things to consider:
This is not the time to look up an unfamiliar word (its meaning can probably be figured out by its context), or to stop reading, (<--consider eliminating this comma) midway through (consider eliminating this 'it', since you use 'it' a lot--> it), to feed the dogs or mow the lawn.
You'll want to do this because (don't think you need-->as you are reading - I think we know what you mean, and it shortens/tightens this sentence up a bit.) it's important to try to stay uninterruptedly in touch with what your feelings are telling you.
Try to become aware of a tone that is nosing (that noses?) into the story as you read.
Ben, the father, who became a Walker Brothers route salesman after losing everything in a silver fox raising venture, takes his daughter and son, one Saturday (his wife declining to go), on his route. (See if you can rephrase, a bit run-on. Maybe: Ben, the father, became a Walker Brothers route salesman after losing everything in a silver fox raising venture. One Saturday, he takes his daughter and sun on his route (his wife declines to go). I actually don't like the parentheses, but it's your call there.)
That is the skeleton that gives the story its posture, the bones and ligaments that hold it upright (the bones and ligaments holding it upright - gets rid of a 'that'). To expand the metaphor, the flesh, the meat that fills (filling out) out the story is more the function of character, while the skin, the casing that holds the flesh together and against the bones, can ('that' attack! 'that' attack! 5 'that's here.)
In this inquiry, as with all aspects of the story's deep-level analysis, we need to make an assumption that is so easily shunted aside as obvious that we could easily overlook its significance. It is the assumption that the writer is responsible for each decision, miniscule or major, that he makes in the story. While we would like to think that each decision was mapped out in advance, the truth is that many are happy (and some not-so-happy) accidents (6 'that's here.)
Though he is nameless, too, and his age indeterminate,(I think you implied earlier that you had to guess her age, so this is not necessary--> as is his sister's,) I would put him at between five and seven.
I would have wallowed around inside his head and worked very hard to convince the reader, and even Ben, himself, that his wife has given up on him the moment he failed in his silver fox pelt venture, that (instead of this 'that', try 'and' or start an new sentence here. A bit long.) now she is ashamed, humiliated over his route sales job; she is deeply, profoundly ashamed of him.
He knows that the children are really a safety net for him.
(He knows the children are his safety net. Gets rid of the that, and the 'for him'.)
He'd leave for home, secure in his mind that nothing had happened, yet full knowing that nothing would be quite the same. (two 'that's)
The whisky, (<--Jay, this was in the exerpt from the book, so I wasn't sure if Alice Munroe had spelled 'whiskey' as 'whisky', but thought I'd point it out.)
If you want a rereview, give a holler!
Take care,
Sissy
Comment Written 16-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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You're a sweetheart, Sissy. Thanks for your close and precise crit on this. I guess you know you're gonna get a thumbs up. You deserve it! I'll get back with you with the changes I decide to make. Thanks again.
Jay
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Sissy, I've gone back into the edit and checked each point of your suggestions. You are good, you know "that?" Of course you know "that." And if you don't have it yet I am going to promulgate a brand new reputation for you: You are the "that" queen. You have supplanted Marlo Thomas as "That Girl." And in doing so you've totally thatmotized me. I can isolate the one "that" in a word-forrest of "than"s, thank you my dear. Yet, like Freud, sometimes I want to scream out: "Sometimes a "that" is just a "that"!
Now, on with it:
In the first suggestion I removed the comma and (reluctantly) eliminated the "it."
I did not omit the "as you are reading" because I wanted to stress the simultaneity of the recognition of "feelings" with the "reading." I thought of changing it to "while" you are reading, but ended up leaving it as it was.
In "try to become aware of a tone that is nosing into the story as you read," I changed it to "that noses," but wondered LOL why you didn't suggest omitting "that is." Hmmmm.
I took your suggestion (happily, I might add) of tightening up the paragraph of the "main story line."
Got rid of the first paragraphs of "thats"
In the next paragraph, however, beginning with "In this inquiry..." I could only get rid of one or two of the 6 thats. It was then that Freud and I started our rant.
I took care of the over-mentioning of the girl's age.
I shortened up the "wallowing in Ben's head" paragraph. It reads better now, thank you.
I "activated" the more passive sentence "... the children are really a safety net for him."
I wasn't able to remove the next two suggested "thats." I'm pulling my hair at that time!
Alice Munro spelled whiskey as "whisky." She's from Canada, if t--t might account for it.
All joking aside, Sissy, I really appreciate all the time you took helping me out with this. You are wonderful!
Don't even concern yourself with the up-rating. Even a 3 from you would be worth a 6 from many others. Don't analyze that -- just take it the way it was meant.
Jay
Comment from Bongosmama
I'm trying very hard here to have something better to say than "you missed a period in the intro".
Hmmmm. The problem is, I really cannot fault your writing. It takes a very good writer to turn a critique of critique into a page-turner. You have a delightful sense of humour that makes reading lit crit an absolute pleasure. It has been many years since I last delved into the joys of lit crit, and you are the first person who has made me actually want to go there again.
I am REALLY looking forward to the rest of the book, and will be following further chapters hungrily!
~ T
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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I'm trying very hard here to have something better to say than "you missed a period in the intro".
Hmmmm. The problem is, I really cannot fault your writing. It takes a very good writer to turn a critique of critique into a page-turner. You have a delightful sense of humour that makes reading lit crit an absolute pleasure. It has been many years since I last delved into the joys of lit crit, and you are the first person who has made me actually want to go there again.
I am REALLY looking forward to the rest of the book, and will be following further chapters hungrily!
~ T
Comment Written 16-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 16-Mar-2007
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Whoa! A sixer! I am speechless -- for a moment -- and then full of fulsome, slavering thank-yous. By the way, you really scared me when you told me I missed my period, Tanya. Then, I remembered I'm a guy! Ba-da-boom. (I hear my wife's voice, I always carry tucked away in my memory for use at such times, saying: "That's just plain stupid, Jay!") You've given me a very high bar to leap over, Tanya. I hope I can keep the spring in these aging crit-lit (love that, thanks!) feet so I can clear it with an even more helpful chapter. PLEASE stay aboard. I crave the input from people like you.
Jay
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Now that you're over your pregnancy shock, let's get down to brass tacks! Don't worry, I shall stay on board. I have been looking for a writing input home, with little success... I edit two small (but national!!) magazines, and I write for two teenage glossies on such inspiring topics as 'how to pay for your studies' and 'dating tips that don't break the bank'. Hmmmmm.
It's been a long time since I even considered writing for joy, and it does me no good to have friends and family fawning over my minor efforts. I need some grit for good digestion... So I hope you'll do that crit thang when I've plucked up the courage to post my illustrious (not) efforts! I know there's a pertinent Proverb for this, but memory fails me. Something to do with the cuts of a friend being more useful than the kisses of an enemy...
I look forward to - um - whatever comes next!
~ T
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Bless you, dear.
Jay