How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 10 "Sweet Exegesis"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
81 total reviews
Comment from Shirley McLain
Excellent reading and very educational for me, so I know it will help everyone who reads it. You did a wonderful job. Shirley
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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Excellent reading and very educational for me, so I know it will help everyone who reads it. You did a wonderful job. Shirley
Comment Written 08-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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Shirley! Thank you so much. I appreciate your kind confidence in me and, of course, your rating.
Comment from Dashjianta
Interesting and enjoyable analysis. I like the way you've broken the story into its aspects and looked at what makes each one work--the detail you go into with the alternative POVs shows the difference each choice the writer makes (consciously or otherwise) can make.
Suggestions:
find out into whose head (s)
--Delete the space before (s)?
we need to make an assumption which is so easily shunted aside as obvious we could easily overlook its significance
--I want to stick a 'that' in after 'obvious' as I had to reread this line a couple of times before it made sense. I think I'm wrong though, and that I just read it wrong first time, but wanted to mention it just in case.
that his wife has given up on him the moment he failed in his silver fox pelt venture.
--Should it be 'gave' rather than 'has given' because you're referring to a specific moment in time?
They will be having a glorious time.
--Blank line to separate paras is missing before this line.
Alice Munro brings to this story a dimension of human understanding and truth (which/that), I'm convinced, could not have been achieved through any other character.
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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Interesting and enjoyable analysis. I like the way you've broken the story into its aspects and looked at what makes each one work--the detail you go into with the alternative POVs shows the difference each choice the writer makes (consciously or otherwise) can make.
Suggestions:
find out into whose head (s)
--Delete the space before (s)?
we need to make an assumption which is so easily shunted aside as obvious we could easily overlook its significance
--I want to stick a 'that' in after 'obvious' as I had to reread this line a couple of times before it made sense. I think I'm wrong though, and that I just read it wrong first time, but wanted to mention it just in case.
that his wife has given up on him the moment he failed in his silver fox pelt venture.
--Should it be 'gave' rather than 'has given' because you're referring to a specific moment in time?
They will be having a glorious time.
--Blank line to separate paras is missing before this line.
Alice Munro brings to this story a dimension of human understanding and truth (which/that), I'm convinced, could not have been achieved through any other character.
Comment Written 08-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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Oh, I missed you, Alex. I was going to send you a personal message this evening reminding you your holiday has run its course.
Thanks for your insightful read. I made all the changes except the two "thats and whiches". I'm glad though you brought them to my attention. I've been trying to eliminate unnecessary thats and I tend to go overboard. I'll look closely at the two instances you suggested later on.
Again, thanks for your catchs. Good to have you back on board.
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You're welcome.
Just got the new post message for your new story. Sorry I didn't review the first chapter today, there was no message for it in my messages. Will give it a look tomorrow.
Comment from alexisleech
I'm sorry this is over for now, Jay, but I'm sure you will be back with more to not only inform us, but impart more of the subtle humour you managed to weave throughout the series.
To be honest, I feel very inadequate when it comes to the proper structure of writing. I'm a 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread' sort of person. The thing that inspired me to write my first novel was a film called 'Finding Forester.' Although it was one in the morning when it finished, I went straight to my computer and did what the man said. 'Just write whatever comes into your head.' My husband came downstairs at four in the morning looking most concerned, but when he read what I'd written, became my first fan (admittedly,he was a little biased!)
So here I am, fifteen years on, finding out what I should be doing. I shall try to absorb it all and put it to good use. Thank you!
Alexis x
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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I'm sorry this is over for now, Jay, but I'm sure you will be back with more to not only inform us, but impart more of the subtle humour you managed to weave throughout the series.
To be honest, I feel very inadequate when it comes to the proper structure of writing. I'm a 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread' sort of person. The thing that inspired me to write my first novel was a film called 'Finding Forester.' Although it was one in the morning when it finished, I went straight to my computer and did what the man said. 'Just write whatever comes into your head.' My husband came downstairs at four in the morning looking most concerned, but when he read what I'd written, became my first fan (admittedly,he was a little biased!)
So here I am, fifteen years on, finding out what I should be doing. I shall try to absorb it all and put it to good use. Thank you!
Alexis x
Comment Written 08-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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I think "Finding Forester" (which I haven't read), if it is suggesting what I call fast writing (or stream of consciousness) he is absolutely right, for the first draft. The hard work comes after that. But you got the freshness of it down on paper.
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So true. It took me years before I felt it was maybe good enough to have it reviewed here on FS. Then, as you say, the work really began.
Comment from Brian Terry
This was so enlightening.
I shall read the early chapters.
Not only does this help with criticism but goes some way to assist in writing the story. I shall try to critique my own novels using your methods
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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This was so enlightening.
I shall read the early chapters.
Not only does this help with criticism but goes some way to assist in writing the story. I shall try to critique my own novels using your methods
Comment Written 08-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 08-Jun-2015
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Much obliged, Brian. I'm glad you found it helpful. Yes, I'm fully aware that what started out as how to critique a post, ended up with "how to develop your writing skills." Thanks for the high rating, Brian. I loves my sixes!
Comment from Gloria ....
Jay, you got me, you caught the tater. I always stop halfway through a story to feed the dog. I knew you had eyes in the back of your head. *wink*
On FanStory I always read everything through once and then go back to the top and use the reviewing notes sidebar to make comments on the second or third read through.
POV is of critical importance to the proper telling of a story. Because everything is just a little bit and sometimes a whole lot different from different perspectives. The only POV that I struggle with recognizing any value in is second person. Man, that's a weird one. But, I will be giving it a try at some point in history just to see if I am able to write it into something that reads naturally and doesn't stick out like a second person sore thumb.
And, I've still yet been able to genuinely discern the difference between the narrator and POV. I think most often they are one and the same, but sometimes not. But my first question to myself is, who is telling this story. When you've got a lock on that it's a lot easier to hit your target and not veer off course. If you haven't a firm grip on who's telling the story you can get lost and go into areas that could not possibly be known by the story teller. Plus it is quite doable to use two or three POVs, but the author must be keenly aware of that choice because the whole story still must hold together. If that makes any sense.
I hope you continue with this series, but by all means start a new book so you get ranking credit. That's the reason I save my sixes for you for your novels.
Gloria
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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Jay, you got me, you caught the tater. I always stop halfway through a story to feed the dog. I knew you had eyes in the back of your head. *wink*
On FanStory I always read everything through once and then go back to the top and use the reviewing notes sidebar to make comments on the second or third read through.
POV is of critical importance to the proper telling of a story. Because everything is just a little bit and sometimes a whole lot different from different perspectives. The only POV that I struggle with recognizing any value in is second person. Man, that's a weird one. But, I will be giving it a try at some point in history just to see if I am able to write it into something that reads naturally and doesn't stick out like a second person sore thumb.
And, I've still yet been able to genuinely discern the difference between the narrator and POV. I think most often they are one and the same, but sometimes not. But my first question to myself is, who is telling this story. When you've got a lock on that it's a lot easier to hit your target and not veer off course. If you haven't a firm grip on who's telling the story you can get lost and go into areas that could not possibly be known by the story teller. Plus it is quite doable to use two or three POVs, but the author must be keenly aware of that choice because the whole story still must hold together. If that makes any sense.
I hope you continue with this series, but by all means start a new book so you get ranking credit. That's the reason I save my sixes for you for your novels.
Gloria
Comment Written 07-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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I don't understand the ranking thing. I found out the hard way, I guess, that my biggest project (this one)was taking my time and $$ to promote and do a decent job answering the crits on, and meanwhile my ranking as a novelist keeps slowly sliding. Now that this is over I will work on my novellas and finishing my trilogy so I get the full ranking credit. How odd is this competition thing, anyway. I have last year's 3rd place novelist trophy on my bookshelf. I really don't need another. I was a salesman, though, for too many years to give up the hunt.
I wrote a chapter of my "Eddie and the Boxcar Painter" in the second person. Tom Robbins wrote a novel in the second person and did a creditable job with it. But the reader is still left with "why"?
Gloria, you don't need to give me sixes. Really! I love them, of course and I appreciate them, but your intense remarks are what I remember in the long run. I appreciate you, Gloria!
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In that case I shall never give you another six. :-) ;-)
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Now wait just a damned minute!
Comment from Writingfundimension
'It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to begin dissecting or sniffing at vagrant corners or tatters of a story before first reading it in its entirety.'
You know, I totally agree with this, Jay, but I do find myself editing as I read. Really good stories have so many layers that reading once is cheating ourselves.
'That is the skeleton giving the story its posture, the bones and ligaments holding it upright.' Great imagery here.
'Meanwhile, in the story you've chosen, while hanging on dearly to the skeleton, have you isolated the point of view character(s)?'
POV continues to be a challenge for me. I keep working on it, though.
Some real nuggets of wisdom in this chapter!
:) Bev
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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'It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to begin dissecting or sniffing at vagrant corners or tatters of a story before first reading it in its entirety.'
You know, I totally agree with this, Jay, but I do find myself editing as I read. Really good stories have so many layers that reading once is cheating ourselves.
'That is the skeleton giving the story its posture, the bones and ligaments holding it upright.' Great imagery here.
'Meanwhile, in the story you've chosen, while hanging on dearly to the skeleton, have you isolated the point of view character(s)?'
POV continues to be a challenge for me. I keep working on it, though.
Some real nuggets of wisdom in this chapter!
:) Bev
Comment Written 07-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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Thank you again, Bev, for reading this and finding some value to you. I feel so privileged to have had you the whole journey through these chapters.
Jay
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You're very welcome, Jay. :) Bev
Comment from sibhus
Hmm, a really interesting point. The father pov wouldn't have a true ring of truth, only what he perceives as the truth. Such as the stop at Nora's is a friendly call, where as the daughter as got a clear unvarnished long at everything. I can see this, Jay. It will depend on whether you want to relate the lies your characters tell themselves, or you want the reader to see the characters with all their faults. A well written piece that was very informative and helpful.
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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Hmm, a really interesting point. The father pov wouldn't have a true ring of truth, only what he perceives as the truth. Such as the stop at Nora's is a friendly call, where as the daughter as got a clear unvarnished long at everything. I can see this, Jay. It will depend on whether you want to relate the lies your characters tell themselves, or you want the reader to see the characters with all their faults. A well written piece that was very informative and helpful.
Comment Written 07-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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Thank you, Sibhus.
Comment from Fridayauthor
Very interesting and well done piece. You were very careful with this and it was a pleasure to read.
While using the daughter's point of view, in the first person, gives the story a great prospective, most writers would not be able to get away with the writing being at such a higher level than the child's age. Munro certainly does.
Four of my all time best short stories...try them sometimes if you haven't, and have time.
Another April Smith
Silent Snow, Secret Snow Aiken
Pretty Mouth and Green My Eyes Salinger
The Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze Saroyan
Paragraph break after ...song about it.
Great job, Jay!
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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Very interesting and well done piece. You were very careful with this and it was a pleasure to read.
While using the daughter's point of view, in the first person, gives the story a great prospective, most writers would not be able to get away with the writing being at such a higher level than the child's age. Munro certainly does.
Four of my all time best short stories...try them sometimes if you haven't, and have time.
Another April Smith
Silent Snow, Secret Snow Aiken
Pretty Mouth and Green My Eyes Salinger
The Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze Saroyan
Paragraph break after ...song about it.
Great job, Jay!
Comment Written 07-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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I'm well familiar with Saroyan and the Trapeze. He happens to be one of my favorite American writers--and used to live a hop, skip and a jump from Bakersfield in a little town near Fresno. I'm familiar with Conrad Aiken and Salinger, but not those stories. Unless April is Smith's first name, I'd have a hard time chasing that down. Thanks, Ray.
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I read Another April in the fifth grade and never forgot it. Sorry, I was wrong on the author; it's Jesse Stuart, not Smith.
Salinger's piece is the lead story in a book of nine short stories that include, "A lovely Day for Bananna Fish," "Uncle Wiggley in Connetticut," etc.
Aiken's "Snow" is mystical and a real think piece.
I loved Saroyan's "Human Camedy" and the opening sentence in trapeeze blows my mind!
Wasn't he something of a jerk in later years?
These are all so old, like me, they're probably free on the Internet.
Your author, Munro reminded me of another, with the same last name. H.H.Munro who wrote under the pen name "Saki" and penned some devilishly clever short stories too. He was just plain fun to read.
Enough, Jay! I must get back to work! (Just walked the seashore with my wife.)
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I won't tell your wife you considered a walk with her on the seashore as work!
It's not Claude Aikens, is it? He's the actor. I thought of that after I answered your crit. I'll check these others out.
Yes, Saroyan was not a very cordial human being.
Comment from barbara.wilkey
I do hope you choose to continue this critter series. My editor sits down with my novel and read it in its entirety before she starts editing. You are right on target.
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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I do hope you choose to continue this critter series. My editor sits down with my novel and read it in its entirety before she starts editing. You are right on target.
Comment Written 07-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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I will probably continue on it once I figure how to do it separate from the other, which was a re-post. Re-posts aren't treated the same by FanStory. Many thanks.
Comment from Spitfire
You're improving my vocabulary as well as my skills. (Had to look up exegesis) I felt like I was back in college with your brilliant analysis of POV in this short story (but I did figure it had be the girl since it involved an old romance.) Love the symbolism of urine as baptismal waters.
Everything's off by a tad for this failure of a man. Munro is a topnotch literary writer. I'm bookmarking this for future reference. You demonstrate to perfection how important this decision is. I do look forward to your adding more chapters. I'd give a six, but want to save the few I have for reviews that will help a person in the rankings as opposed to revivals. Still, I'm thankful you brought the series back. I joined in 2012 and missed the first time around.
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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You're improving my vocabulary as well as my skills. (Had to look up exegesis) I felt like I was back in college with your brilliant analysis of POV in this short story (but I did figure it had be the girl since it involved an old romance.) Love the symbolism of urine as baptismal waters.
Everything's off by a tad for this failure of a man. Munro is a topnotch literary writer. I'm bookmarking this for future reference. You demonstrate to perfection how important this decision is. I do look forward to your adding more chapters. I'd give a six, but want to save the few I have for reviews that will help a person in the rankings as opposed to revivals. Still, I'm thankful you brought the series back. I joined in 2012 and missed the first time around.
Comment Written 07-Jun-2015
reply by the author on 07-Jun-2015
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Yeah, as I mentioned to Barbara Wilkey, I'll add to this if I can figure a way where I will get credit for rankings with it. I do appreciate your bookmarking it, your kind words, and a six isn't at all necessary.
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Any new work will automatically count toward ranking even if added to a book.
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Thank you for that!