Idioms Explained
Viewing comments for Chapter 22 " ... in a 'coon's age"Fanstorians explain the backstory of idioms
29 total reviews
Comment from Mary Vigasin
All I can say is context.
Years ago in the country I heard 'coon' used exactly as racist. There was no question or misunderstanding.
Now I have also heard "In a coons age" with a response "Yeah I have been away." I think the use was a local idiom used as the original origin without much thought.
Mary
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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All I can say is context.
Years ago in the country I heard 'coon' used exactly as racist. There was no question or misunderstanding.
Now I have also heard "In a coons age" with a response "Yeah I have been away." I think the use was a local idiom used as the original origin without much thought.
Mary
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!
Comment from Ric Myworld
As with so many of these sayings, it's so easy to offend someone. But most of those who get offended, they are just looking for something to be pissed off about anyway. A few weeks back at a local bar, I was talking about a Cajun friend who I referred to as a coon-ass, which is what they are called in Louisiana where I picked up the saying. About a seven-foot black man leaned over and said, "What did you say?" To which I replied, "Did I say something to you?" He just stood glaring. Then, I told him exactly what I said and then some, "I said, coon-ass motherf . . . er, talking about my Cajun friend of 40 years. Then, I flipped the question on him and said, "have you got a problem with it?" As I figured, his dingy drew up along with his heart and he walked away. Thanks for sharing. And sorry about another ramble.
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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As with so many of these sayings, it's so easy to offend someone. But most of those who get offended, they are just looking for something to be pissed off about anyway. A few weeks back at a local bar, I was talking about a Cajun friend who I referred to as a coon-ass, which is what they are called in Louisiana where I picked up the saying. About a seven-foot black man leaned over and said, "What did you say?" To which I replied, "Did I say something to you?" He just stood glaring. Then, I told him exactly what I said and then some, "I said, coon-ass motherf . . . er, talking about my Cajun friend of 40 years. Then, I flipped the question on him and said, "have you got a problem with it?" As I figured, his dingy drew up along with his heart and he walked away. Thanks for sharing. And sorry about another ramble.
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!
Comment from RGstar
So let me put you straight, and I haven't read Sandra's idoms...in which Coon is not an Idiom.
....and it is not a slur.
'The coon caricature is one of the most insulting of all anti-black caricatures. The name itself, an abbreviation of raccoon' It was meant and was dehumanizing, somme ways similar to the term Sambo. Coon was portrayed as a lazy, easily frightened, chronically idle, and inarticulate as well a buffoon. Such the connection to raccoon. Thus began the usage, but became more prominent in Britain as one of the most hardened and dehumanising words , even bettering Nigger.
Sambo was depicted as a perpetual child, not capable of living as an independent adult, portrayed to be happy in servitude, whilst coon, supposedly, acted like a child but he was an adult; Sambo was the loyal and contented servant. Indeed, Sambo was offered as a defense for slavery and segregation...again one of the most used words of hate to all black people, regardless of status.
The coon, though a servant often, was unhappy with his status. He was, simply, too lazy or too cynical to attempt to change his lowly position. Also, by the '1900s, Sambo was identified with older, docile blacks who accepted Jim Crow laws and etiquette; whereas coons were increasingly identified with young, urban blacks who disrespected whites. Stated differently, the coon was a Sambo gone bad. '
'Quote'
''The prototypical movie coon was Stepin Fetchit, the slow-talking, slow-walking, self-demeaning nitwit. It took his character almost a minute to say: "I'se be catchin' ma feets nah, Boss." Donald Bogle (1994), a cinema historian, lambasted the coon, as played by Stepin Fetchit and others:
Before it died out, coon became the most blatantly degrading of all black stereotypes. 'The pure coons emerged as no-account niggers, those unreliable, crazy, lazy, subhuman creatures good for nothing more than eating watermelons, stealing chickens, shooting crap, or butchering the English language.''
Racial caricatures are fueled by stereotypes, that stereotyping with blacks as coons continued throughout the 20th Century.
'The pioneer study of racial and ethnic stereotyping in the United States was conducted in 1933 by Daniel Katz and Kenneth Braley, two social scientists.'' A selection from Princeton University (USA) from Their research concluded that blacks were consistently described as "superstitious," "happy-go-lucky," and "lazy." The respondents had these views even though they had little or no contact with blacks. This study was repeated in 1951, and the negative stereotyping of blacks persisted (Gilbert). The Civil Rights Movement improved whites' attitudes toward blacks, but a sizeable minority of whites still hold traditional, racist views of blacks. An early 1990s study conducted by the National Opinion Research Center found that the majority of the white, Hispanic, and other non-black respondents displayed negative attitudes towards blacks. For example, 78 percent said that blacks were more likely than whites to "prefer to live off welfare" and "less likely to prefer to be self-supporting." Further, 62 percent said blacks were more likely to be lazy; 56 percent said blacks were violence-prone; and 53 percent said that blacks were less intelligent than whites (Duke, 1991). Stated differently: the coon caricature is still being applied to blacks. Martin Gilens (1999), a Yale University political scientist, argued that many white Americans believe that blacks receive welfare benefits more often than do whites and that "the centuries old stereotype of blacks as lazy remains credible for a large number of white Americans." He claimed that opposition to welfare programs results from misinformation and racism, with whites assuming that their tax money is being used to support lazy blacks. Gilens blames, in part, the media. "Pictures of poor blacks are abundant when poverty coverage is most negative, while pictures of non-blacks dominate the more sympathetic coverage."
''Universally, they [white Southerners] will tell you that while the old-time Negroes were industrious, saving, and when not misled, well-behaved, kindly, respectful, and self-respecting, and while the remnant of them who remain still retain generally these characteristics, the "new issue," for the most part, are lazy, thriftless, intemperate, insolent, dishonest, and without the most rudimentary elements of morality....Universally, they report a general depravity and retrogression of the Negroes at large in sections in which they are left to themselves, closely resembling a reversion to barbarism. (p. 80)
At the beginning of the 1900s many whites supported the implementation of Jim Crow laws and etiquette. They believed that blacks were genetically, therefore permanently, inferior to whites. Blacks were, they argued, hedonistic children, irresponsible, and left to their own plans, destined for idleness -- or worse. It was not uncommon for whites to distinguish between Niggers (Coons and Bucks) and Negroes (Toms, Sambos, and Mammies), and they preferred the latter. ''
I think Ican leave it there Elizabeth.
I only want to say, recently, I have seen a more pronounced delving and fronting of race by a few here who feel comfortable in doing so, which wasn't a factor years ago here, it was more about the writing, the envy, competition, and harsh review styles by some, but this new rawness is tiring and suffocating, and to tell you the truth, tedious, because where there are 5 worst, there are always 20 good, such is reflected in society, so I guess must be expected here.
Its a shame that even now, people can't just be people, and writers, instead of some venting own insecurities and hate, as well a lack of education (education of life)...and to think most are of the age where time will soon close the door, and will go to their silent sleep with hate and anger in their minds, wasting time trying to convince others to also be a part, and to join small minds of such a venture and lifestyle. I have only pity for such, for they must be in a strange place in their lives...and what is more surprising...claims to be of God. I have not said before, I have never heard of such a God that supports hate, except the God in their minds deluded by. I wonder how many Gods we seem to have on this writing site. Some should be ashamed.
I was called coon, Sambo, nigger, in my teen days, in fact near childhood...I guess some early tears, yet, I was too strong, resilient in the end, friendly, and giving...and I learned never to call any man by the same level of racism that was aimed at me in younger age, and I never have...not one word uttered in anger or pain. Even when oppressed by some, I never, ever called the oppressor a bad name based on race or colour. This is how I live my life, with a love for all, and a respect for all
Some do not have the art to shine, neither the courtesy or mannerisms to be. ..struggle within themselves to be noticed, and when not, hate moves to the forefront of their agendas. It is a sad place to be, for it is there one tries to find common ground.
No Elizabeth...nothing to smile at, and coon was never a slur or accident...(slur is a watered down, acceptable media word)...just a degrading attack with all the venom a word can muster, and the harm meant.
I live my life with respect for all, for the meek, the humble, the elderly, our animals, trees, nature. I have no time for hate, or for those who entertain hate...I just keep away and stay silent, until time I am compelled.
Have a good Christmas Elizabeth
My very best.
RG
Have a good day
reply by the author on 14-Dec-2021
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So let me put you straight, and I haven't read Sandra's idoms...in which Coon is not an Idiom.
....and it is not a slur.
'The coon caricature is one of the most insulting of all anti-black caricatures. The name itself, an abbreviation of raccoon' It was meant and was dehumanizing, somme ways similar to the term Sambo. Coon was portrayed as a lazy, easily frightened, chronically idle, and inarticulate as well a buffoon. Such the connection to raccoon. Thus began the usage, but became more prominent in Britain as one of the most hardened and dehumanising words , even bettering Nigger.
Sambo was depicted as a perpetual child, not capable of living as an independent adult, portrayed to be happy in servitude, whilst coon, supposedly, acted like a child but he was an adult; Sambo was the loyal and contented servant. Indeed, Sambo was offered as a defense for slavery and segregation...again one of the most used words of hate to all black people, regardless of status.
The coon, though a servant often, was unhappy with his status. He was, simply, too lazy or too cynical to attempt to change his lowly position. Also, by the '1900s, Sambo was identified with older, docile blacks who accepted Jim Crow laws and etiquette; whereas coons were increasingly identified with young, urban blacks who disrespected whites. Stated differently, the coon was a Sambo gone bad. '
'Quote'
''The prototypical movie coon was Stepin Fetchit, the slow-talking, slow-walking, self-demeaning nitwit. It took his character almost a minute to say: "I'se be catchin' ma feets nah, Boss." Donald Bogle (1994), a cinema historian, lambasted the coon, as played by Stepin Fetchit and others:
Before it died out, coon became the most blatantly degrading of all black stereotypes. 'The pure coons emerged as no-account niggers, those unreliable, crazy, lazy, subhuman creatures good for nothing more than eating watermelons, stealing chickens, shooting crap, or butchering the English language.''
Racial caricatures are fueled by stereotypes, that stereotyping with blacks as coons continued throughout the 20th Century.
'The pioneer study of racial and ethnic stereotyping in the United States was conducted in 1933 by Daniel Katz and Kenneth Braley, two social scientists.'' A selection from Princeton University (USA) from Their research concluded that blacks were consistently described as "superstitious," "happy-go-lucky," and "lazy." The respondents had these views even though they had little or no contact with blacks. This study was repeated in 1951, and the negative stereotyping of blacks persisted (Gilbert). The Civil Rights Movement improved whites' attitudes toward blacks, but a sizeable minority of whites still hold traditional, racist views of blacks. An early 1990s study conducted by the National Opinion Research Center found that the majority of the white, Hispanic, and other non-black respondents displayed negative attitudes towards blacks. For example, 78 percent said that blacks were more likely than whites to "prefer to live off welfare" and "less likely to prefer to be self-supporting." Further, 62 percent said blacks were more likely to be lazy; 56 percent said blacks were violence-prone; and 53 percent said that blacks were less intelligent than whites (Duke, 1991). Stated differently: the coon caricature is still being applied to blacks. Martin Gilens (1999), a Yale University political scientist, argued that many white Americans believe that blacks receive welfare benefits more often than do whites and that "the centuries old stereotype of blacks as lazy remains credible for a large number of white Americans." He claimed that opposition to welfare programs results from misinformation and racism, with whites assuming that their tax money is being used to support lazy blacks. Gilens blames, in part, the media. "Pictures of poor blacks are abundant when poverty coverage is most negative, while pictures of non-blacks dominate the more sympathetic coverage."
''Universally, they [white Southerners] will tell you that while the old-time Negroes were industrious, saving, and when not misled, well-behaved, kindly, respectful, and self-respecting, and while the remnant of them who remain still retain generally these characteristics, the "new issue," for the most part, are lazy, thriftless, intemperate, insolent, dishonest, and without the most rudimentary elements of morality....Universally, they report a general depravity and retrogression of the Negroes at large in sections in which they are left to themselves, closely resembling a reversion to barbarism. (p. 80)
At the beginning of the 1900s many whites supported the implementation of Jim Crow laws and etiquette. They believed that blacks were genetically, therefore permanently, inferior to whites. Blacks were, they argued, hedonistic children, irresponsible, and left to their own plans, destined for idleness -- or worse. It was not uncommon for whites to distinguish between Niggers (Coons and Bucks) and Negroes (Toms, Sambos, and Mammies), and they preferred the latter. ''
I think Ican leave it there Elizabeth.
I only want to say, recently, I have seen a more pronounced delving and fronting of race by a few here who feel comfortable in doing so, which wasn't a factor years ago here, it was more about the writing, the envy, competition, and harsh review styles by some, but this new rawness is tiring and suffocating, and to tell you the truth, tedious, because where there are 5 worst, there are always 20 good, such is reflected in society, so I guess must be expected here.
Its a shame that even now, people can't just be people, and writers, instead of some venting own insecurities and hate, as well a lack of education (education of life)...and to think most are of the age where time will soon close the door, and will go to their silent sleep with hate and anger in their minds, wasting time trying to convince others to also be a part, and to join small minds of such a venture and lifestyle. I have only pity for such, for they must be in a strange place in their lives...and what is more surprising...claims to be of God. I have not said before, I have never heard of such a God that supports hate, except the God in their minds deluded by. I wonder how many Gods we seem to have on this writing site. Some should be ashamed.
I was called coon, Sambo, nigger, in my teen days, in fact near childhood...I guess some early tears, yet, I was too strong, resilient in the end, friendly, and giving...and I learned never to call any man by the same level of racism that was aimed at me in younger age, and I never have...not one word uttered in anger or pain. Even when oppressed by some, I never, ever called the oppressor a bad name based on race or colour. This is how I live my life, with a love for all, and a respect for all
Some do not have the art to shine, neither the courtesy or mannerisms to be. ..struggle within themselves to be noticed, and when not, hate moves to the forefront of their agendas. It is a sad place to be, for it is there one tries to find common ground.
No Elizabeth...nothing to smile at, and coon was never a slur or accident...(slur is a watered down, acceptable media word)...just a degrading attack with all the venom a word can muster, and the harm meant.
I live my life with respect for all, for the meek, the humble, the elderly, our animals, trees, nature. I have no time for hate, or for those who entertain hate...I just keep away and stay silent, until time I am compelled.
Have a good Christmas Elizabeth
My very best.
RG
Have a good day
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 14-Dec-2021
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Point taken as to misuse of "slur." My carelessness is not to be construed as making light of racism, much less smiling about it. I take it you assume I am white; pink hair can mislead.
As to the content of your reply--stupendous! It merits top-of-chart promotion. Clearly, you are as fine a prose writer as you are a poet.
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My best Elizabeth. You are top writer here, and a good person. I expect nothing less. Have a great Christmas.
Keepup the god work.
RG
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Right back at you!
Comment from T B Botts
Hi Liz,
I'm from the old school I guess. I've heard the saying for years, but never thought much about it. I find it distressing that we have to weigh our words prior to speaking, especially if speaking to someone we view as a friend. If no offense was intended, none should be taken. I hope some day we're beyond all of this. Thanks for sharing.
Have a blessed day.
Tom
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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Hi Liz,
I'm from the old school I guess. I've heard the saying for years, but never thought much about it. I find it distressing that we have to weigh our words prior to speaking, especially if speaking to someone we view as a friend. If no offense was intended, none should be taken. I hope some day we're beyond all of this. Thanks for sharing.
Have a blessed day.
Tom
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!
Comment from barbara.wilkey
I read Sandra's poem and enjoyed reading. I never thought of 'in a coons age' as being racial, but then again, I never thought our highway system was racial. Show's what I know. I personally think people are looking for issues. Thank you for sharing.
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I read Sandra's poem and enjoyed reading. I never thought of 'in a coons age' as being racial, but then again, I never thought our highway system was racial. Show's what I know. I personally think people are looking for issues. Thank you for sharing.
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!
Comment from robyn corum
Liz,
WOW! I had no idea. That is pretty good information to know. It's so easy to offend someone these days and not have any idea why. I would never associate those two! Thanks!
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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Liz,
WOW! I had no idea. That is pretty good information to know. It's so easy to offend someone these days and not have any idea why. I would never associate those two! Thanks!
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!
Comment from Robert Zimmerman
Hello Liz.
Even though this is a unique idiomatic expression, I grew up hearing it. About 65 years ago, my grandfather had hounds and once in a while he would take me hunting with him. We would just sit and listen to the hounds run the racoons.
Racoons are some of the most creative people that ever lived. they are sneaky too. They were wearing masks long before COVID. We had a neighbor once who had a pack of them that showed up on his back porch to be fed every night. If he didn't feed them, they would tear into his trash container. They are mean little sprites.
Robert
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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Hello Liz.
Even though this is a unique idiomatic expression, I grew up hearing it. About 65 years ago, my grandfather had hounds and once in a while he would take me hunting with him. We would just sit and listen to the hounds run the racoons.
Racoons are some of the most creative people that ever lived. they are sneaky too. They were wearing masks long before COVID. We had a neighbor once who had a pack of them that showed up on his back porch to be fed every night. If he didn't feed them, they would tear into his trash container. They are mean little sprites.
Robert
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!
Comment from Jasmine Girl
It's good to learn a new idiom and have learnt that I should be careful at using it. It could be misunderstood as a racial slur. Is is Okay to use on a Caucasian person?
Well done.
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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It's good to learn a new idiom and have learnt that I should be careful at using it. It could be misunderstood as a racial slur. Is is Okay to use on a Caucasian person?
Well done.
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!
Comment from Seshadri_Sreenivasan
English is a very easy and at the same time complicated language to learn I think.:) And it can also create a very unpleasant situation with its double entendres I think. But I enjoy it. I was not at all aware of the phrase ''coon's age'! Thanks for sharing an interesting story and teaching me a new phrase!
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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English is a very easy and at the same time complicated language to learn I think.:) And it can also create a very unpleasant situation with its double entendres I think. But I enjoy it. I was not at all aware of the phrase ''coon's age'! Thanks for sharing an interesting story and teaching me a new phrase!
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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Comment from Sandra Stoner-Mitchell
A coon's age, I've never heard of that one so it must be an American idiom. It's sad that in the 21st century we still have to be so careful at what we say, even when it comes to these well used idioms. I wonder, did Sally ever get to explain it to her friend? Well done, my friend, I enjoyed reading about this one, but was sad it was taken the wrong way. :)) Sandra xx
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
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A coon's age, I've never heard of that one so it must be an American idiom. It's sad that in the 21st century we still have to be so careful at what we say, even when it comes to these well used idioms. I wonder, did Sally ever get to explain it to her friend? Well done, my friend, I enjoyed reading about this one, but was sad it was taken the wrong way. :)) Sandra xx
Comment Written 13-Dec-2021
reply by the author on 18-Dec-2021
-
I don't think he reacted as severely as I described--nevertheless, she second-guessed her choice of words--I conjured the scenario to make my point.
People used to think racoons lived a long time--have no clue why!