How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 9 "Intermezzo B.Y.O.B"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
81 total reviews
Comment from Cairn Destop
The more I read, the more I get "attitude" rather than anything constructive. You started out with a good premise. Examine what is published and through a careful analysis, discover what technics worked. The idea of remaining contemporary is also good since these writers haven't reached the "classic" stage where anyone making derogitory comments "doesn't understand good writings." A few minor comments.
a published story to learn from. = Suggest eliminating "to learn from" as both superfulous and as a way of avoiding the hanging preposition.
Because, like it or not, publication is the benchmark for a story's success. = Personal opinion, but I don't think so. I write as a hobby, a way of relieving job related stress. For me, it's knowing others have read and/or commented on my efforts. Considering the number of blog-styled entries, that might be true for many on this site.
You'll develop and ear = You'll develop an ear
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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The more I read, the more I get "attitude" rather than anything constructive. You started out with a good premise. Examine what is published and through a careful analysis, discover what technics worked. The idea of remaining contemporary is also good since these writers haven't reached the "classic" stage where anyone making derogitory comments "doesn't understand good writings." A few minor comments.
a published story to learn from. = Suggest eliminating "to learn from" as both superfulous and as a way of avoiding the hanging preposition.
Because, like it or not, publication is the benchmark for a story's success. = Personal opinion, but I don't think so. I write as a hobby, a way of relieving job related stress. For me, it's knowing others have read and/or commented on my efforts. Considering the number of blog-styled entries, that might be true for many on this site.
You'll develop and ear = You'll develop an ear
Comment Written 03-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Cairn, you are so important to this book. You really dig deeply. Thank you. In my defense about the attitude thing, friend, this should never have been whacked in half. I think you'll agree when you read the next (conjoining) segment. I stopped this simply because if I hadn't few would read it because of its length and that the second part if it is to be most productive needs to be read slowly. The rest is right on -- again, thanks,
Jay
Comment from mjesecina
It is very interesting work and could be so useful.It was my pleasure to read it.I am looking forward for next chapter..Thank you for sharing this with me and all best wish you Mjesecina!!!!!!
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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It is very interesting work and could be so useful.It was my pleasure to read it.I am looking forward for next chapter..Thank you for sharing this with me and all best wish you Mjesecina!!!!!!
Comment Written 03-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Thank you for your kind words, mjesecina. PLEASE read the next segment. It should have been one piece but it would have made it unbearably long. Thanks again...
Jay
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I would.You are welcome for my poems,too.
Comment from balance67
Hello, jaysquires.
Economics one-oh-one - I get what you mean here, and did you intend for one-oh-one, instead of one-on-one?
"let's get it on! ...
NEXT TIME ...." - I would put the end quotes for let's get it on!, instead of NEXT TIME, it seems to stand on its own with being bold and centered at the bottom.
Two suggestions aside, I absorbed this informative, yet tragic piece. I find it very sad that publishers always care about money; I have read a lot on stories on the best-sellers lists...mostly going with this 'simple' and 'clear' language. Stories that don't take a lot to understand, and can be absorbed in a single reading. Anything with Stephen King, James Patterson, Nora Roberts, and others to name a few.
Every book seems to look the same in terms of such a predictable presentation of writing. The best writing seems to be written already from hundreds of years ago. Have people gotten dumb from say, the 1500s, or 1600s, or even 1700s? Works, back then (most of them), used to be chock-loaded with long, involving sentences and invoked evolutionary marks in writing. Nowadays, people want smaller sentences and not to think, but to escape from their problems, which is a big problem in itself.
As a writer, I want people to think more than ever. There are obvious problems in this world, and there's a severe lack of personal responsibility for the direct and indirect crises, like overpopulation, poor distribution of food, health care, race relations, or the abysmal, ignorant quality of our popular culture, not to forget carbon emissions with global warming. Not many people give a crap; all they care about is what happens in the next fifteen minutes, or when they hit Dunkin' Donuts for their latest coffee or bagel.
This is the problem with America. Because people, throughout the years, have created such an individualized nation, it has degraded due to the allowance of people doing what they want (they even ignore simple laws and customs of etiquite and tolerance, still to this day). And now, our publishing industry (like other businesses, sadly enough) rallies in this tug-of-war everyday to stay at the top no matter what. But seriously, isn't this a silly war created by people, just like people buying stupid products to keep these companies (invented and structured by people) afloat.
There needs to be some drastic changes to our ideals and beliefs. This extreme individualization and isolation of sorts needs to be modified so that our basic needs can be acknowledged, or to the extent that writers of much depth and style can also be recognized just as much as all the 'two-cent hacks' on the 'best-sellers lists'. Who knows...if we continue on the 'minimalist' path, everyone will be forced to write haiku-based novels? Wouldn't that be fun? Yeah, every essay and resume, like a haiku...bastardizing talents already destroyed by the minimalist standards set by our education policies (which, also invented and interpreted by people, by the way). I have nothing against haikus, or other poetic forms, but it seems writing will never cease to become shorter and clearer to a populace dedicated to being stupid, shallow, and materialistic.
Anyway, well done! My apologies for the lengthy commentary, but you know, this bothers me. I know clarity is important, and I know it has to relate to most people, but I will not dumb my writing because most people have been weaned to be dumb and hardcore traditioned by people in the system...after all, isn't writing a constant, subjective process? Who, ultimately, has the power to judge since writing is a constant, subjective process, and invented as such?
Keep up the good work. I look forward to reading more in the future.
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Hello, jaysquires.
Economics one-oh-one - I get what you mean here, and did you intend for one-oh-one, instead of one-on-one?
"let's get it on! ...
NEXT TIME ...." - I would put the end quotes for let's get it on!, instead of NEXT TIME, it seems to stand on its own with being bold and centered at the bottom.
Two suggestions aside, I absorbed this informative, yet tragic piece. I find it very sad that publishers always care about money; I have read a lot on stories on the best-sellers lists...mostly going with this 'simple' and 'clear' language. Stories that don't take a lot to understand, and can be absorbed in a single reading. Anything with Stephen King, James Patterson, Nora Roberts, and others to name a few.
Every book seems to look the same in terms of such a predictable presentation of writing. The best writing seems to be written already from hundreds of years ago. Have people gotten dumb from say, the 1500s, or 1600s, or even 1700s? Works, back then (most of them), used to be chock-loaded with long, involving sentences and invoked evolutionary marks in writing. Nowadays, people want smaller sentences and not to think, but to escape from their problems, which is a big problem in itself.
As a writer, I want people to think more than ever. There are obvious problems in this world, and there's a severe lack of personal responsibility for the direct and indirect crises, like overpopulation, poor distribution of food, health care, race relations, or the abysmal, ignorant quality of our popular culture, not to forget carbon emissions with global warming. Not many people give a crap; all they care about is what happens in the next fifteen minutes, or when they hit Dunkin' Donuts for their latest coffee or bagel.
This is the problem with America. Because people, throughout the years, have created such an individualized nation, it has degraded due to the allowance of people doing what they want (they even ignore simple laws and customs of etiquite and tolerance, still to this day). And now, our publishing industry (like other businesses, sadly enough) rallies in this tug-of-war everyday to stay at the top no matter what. But seriously, isn't this a silly war created by people, just like people buying stupid products to keep these companies (invented and structured by people) afloat.
There needs to be some drastic changes to our ideals and beliefs. This extreme individualization and isolation of sorts needs to be modified so that our basic needs can be acknowledged, or to the extent that writers of much depth and style can also be recognized just as much as all the 'two-cent hacks' on the 'best-sellers lists'. Who knows...if we continue on the 'minimalist' path, everyone will be forced to write haiku-based novels? Wouldn't that be fun? Yeah, every essay and resume, like a haiku...bastardizing talents already destroyed by the minimalist standards set by our education policies (which, also invented and interpreted by people, by the way). I have nothing against haikus, or other poetic forms, but it seems writing will never cease to become shorter and clearer to a populace dedicated to being stupid, shallow, and materialistic.
Anyway, well done! My apologies for the lengthy commentary, but you know, this bothers me. I know clarity is important, and I know it has to relate to most people, but I will not dumb my writing because most people have been weaned to be dumb and hardcore traditioned by people in the system...after all, isn't writing a constant, subjective process? Who, ultimately, has the power to judge since writing is a constant, subjective process, and invented as such?
Keep up the good work. I look forward to reading more in the future.
Comment Written 03-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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WOW! Balance, you are so profoundly right about what writing has devolved to. And it is economics! It has to be because of the concomitant devolution of the public standard -- which is what the publisher reacts to. Thank you for your thoughful exegesis of the problem. Please hang around for the next segment. It shouldn't disappoint you.
Jay
Not a problem, Jay. I'll be more than happy to read through the rest of your guide...yeah, in this for the long haul! Heh! Heh! Yeah.
Thanks for the reply and understanding. Take care.
Comment from dragonqueen1983
i like this work its very well written and informative. i'm sure many people will find it extremly useful. well done and thanks for sharing this wiht the FS.
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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i like this work its very well written and informative. i'm sure many people will find it extremly useful. well done and thanks for sharing this wiht the FS.
Comment Written 03-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Well, I can only thank you for reading it. Please jump aboard for the rest of the ride, okay?
Jay
Comment from Sue-z-Q
Hi Jay:
Well, my dear, you left me nothing to jump on and criticize. Guess you must've fixed everything already.
I'm not sure that I, personally, could do what you're suggesting in this chapter. It would take the type of reader who has developed certain necessary skills and knowledge to tell what's good or bad in stories. I'm not qualified to judge. I only know whether I like a story or not.
My favorite genre is westerns, particularly those by Louis L'Amour and yet I itch to edit his work at times. Nonetheless I devour his books and I'm determined to read all of his work. Then there are many other authors of westerns that I want to read, so you see, my range as a basis for understanding what is called GREAT writing is very limited. I've tried to read things like the classics, but as a general rule, they bore me to death, so I can't get interested in them.
Again, as I stated above, I'm not qualified to judge. And, by the way, neither are the people who work for the publishing houses.
Sue-z-Q
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Hi Jay:
Well, my dear, you left me nothing to jump on and criticize. Guess you must've fixed everything already.
I'm not sure that I, personally, could do what you're suggesting in this chapter. It would take the type of reader who has developed certain necessary skills and knowledge to tell what's good or bad in stories. I'm not qualified to judge. I only know whether I like a story or not.
My favorite genre is westerns, particularly those by Louis L'Amour and yet I itch to edit his work at times. Nonetheless I devour his books and I'm determined to read all of his work. Then there are many other authors of westerns that I want to read, so you see, my range as a basis for understanding what is called GREAT writing is very limited. I've tried to read things like the classics, but as a general rule, they bore me to death, so I can't get interested in them.
Again, as I stated above, I'm not qualified to judge. And, by the way, neither are the people who work for the publishing houses.
Sue-z-Q
Comment Written 03-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Thanks, Sue, for your complete commentary. There is certainly nothing wrong with westerns. They are an American classic style. I love your last line -- and tend to agree with you. Many who are saying "never" to good stories are minimum wage kids. Thanks again.
Jay
Comment from jack silver
i really liked this one even though i have no idea really how it started an yeah this one is really out of it an i hope people have said the same thing about your writing an yeah this one is really something an i really really really enjoyed it an i can not wait for more of your work to be written for me to read an do reviews on an as i said before i really did in joy it completely.
from jack silver
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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i really liked this one even though i have no idea really how it started an yeah this one is really out of it an i hope people have said the same thing about your writing an yeah this one is really something an i really really really enjoyed it an i can not wait for more of your work to be written for me to read an do reviews on an as i said before i really did in joy it completely.
from jack silver
Comment Written 02-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Thank you, jack silver for your thoughtful crit an oh yeah, do you have any more of that weed? LOL
Jay
Comment from nor84
Hi, Jay
"Furthermore, since many of us want to earn our livelihood from their writing..." Should that be from OUR writing?
"You'll develop and ear "---AN ear
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Hi, Jay
"Furthermore, since many of us want to earn our livelihood from their writing..." Should that be from OUR writing?
"You'll develop and ear "---AN ear
Comment Written 02-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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My God, Porterville, it takes someone from Kern and (read whatever county you're in). . . to pick out two such obvious oversights. Thanks. I'm going in there to change that right now.
Jay
Comment from suneagle
Jay, there's a lot of useful information in this. It's good, but could have been so much better. Some of it resembles a "dump" of what you wanted said, but forgot to edit. It's important, with an essay like this, that you polish it until it shines. The wordiness apparent in this tarnishes your fine message.
though I would start with a published story to learn from. (The final words "to learn from" are superfluous and could be deleted.)
It's much more modest than that. ("than that" is superfluous and could be deleted. The comparison was obvious.)
Furthermore, since many of us want to earn our livelihood from their writing, (... want to earn our livelihood for our writing, )
You'll develop and ear and even a nose for what's right and what's not. (... an ear ... )
Let's not make the process more than it is: It is simply taking a story, chopping it into its parts, at first, possibly, with the studied caution of a medical intern, but later with the deftness of a surgeon: taking it apart, then putting it back together again, taking it apart once more, and putting it back, but this time switching parts; you may elongate a section, compress another; all the time you'll be asking questions and looking for the answers, what-if-ing all over the place, zeroing in on a part of it, brushing away some grit and seeing if it moves easier; during the entire process, you'll be searching out the life energy that runs through the piece. (It appears you wanted to turn your reader off completely with that complex, convoluted "semi-rant". Authorities tell us that a reader's comprehension diminishes proportionally for every word over 25. You calculate what you achieved through that sentence. I strongly suggest severing into little pieces, with perhaps a simplification or two. In other words, do to that sentence/paragraph what you advocate for a story.)
Can we believe a tightrope walker, learns his craft on a wire strung between two buildings, four hundred feet from the ground? (Delete the first comma.)
Equally as important, if you cannot make any changes to it, if you cannot alter it without throwing it out of balance, then haven't you learned something more about balance, and haven't you, through deep-level analysis learned how the writer brought about this miracle of literary equilibrium? (Your enthusiasm is running away again. Snip the sentence into bite size, easily digestible pieces.)
You also, might find a yellow hi-liter (Also, you might ... )
It is the best one for me--though even in that it is evolving, so that what is the best today may not be sufficient a year from now, or even tomorrow. (Very awkward. I suggest refining that sentence.)
This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Jay, there's a lot of useful information in this. It's good, but could have been so much better. Some of it resembles a "dump" of what you wanted said, but forgot to edit. It's important, with an essay like this, that you polish it until it shines. The wordiness apparent in this tarnishes your fine message.
though I would start with a published story to learn from. (The final words "to learn from" are superfluous and could be deleted.)
It's much more modest than that. ("than that" is superfluous and could be deleted. The comparison was obvious.)
Furthermore, since many of us want to earn our livelihood from their writing, (... want to earn our livelihood for our writing, )
You'll develop and ear and even a nose for what's right and what's not. (... an ear ... )
Let's not make the process more than it is: It is simply taking a story, chopping it into its parts, at first, possibly, with the studied caution of a medical intern, but later with the deftness of a surgeon: taking it apart, then putting it back together again, taking it apart once more, and putting it back, but this time switching parts; you may elongate a section, compress another; all the time you'll be asking questions and looking for the answers, what-if-ing all over the place, zeroing in on a part of it, brushing away some grit and seeing if it moves easier; during the entire process, you'll be searching out the life energy that runs through the piece. (It appears you wanted to turn your reader off completely with that complex, convoluted "semi-rant". Authorities tell us that a reader's comprehension diminishes proportionally for every word over 25. You calculate what you achieved through that sentence. I strongly suggest severing into little pieces, with perhaps a simplification or two. In other words, do to that sentence/paragraph what you advocate for a story.)
Can we believe a tightrope walker, learns his craft on a wire strung between two buildings, four hundred feet from the ground? (Delete the first comma.)
Equally as important, if you cannot make any changes to it, if you cannot alter it without throwing it out of balance, then haven't you learned something more about balance, and haven't you, through deep-level analysis learned how the writer brought about this miracle of literary equilibrium? (Your enthusiasm is running away again. Snip the sentence into bite size, easily digestible pieces.)
You also, might find a yellow hi-liter (Also, you might ... )
It is the best one for me--though even in that it is evolving, so that what is the best today may not be sufficient a year from now, or even tomorrow. (Very awkward. I suggest refining that sentence.)
This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
Comment Written 02-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Suneagle, you've given me a thoughtful and insightful commentary on this piece. And I agree with your initial observation. It has promise, but could be so much better. I pasted your suggestions to word and I'll review them against the printed text tomorrow when I'm fresher. Many I shall incorporate. Thanks....
Jay
Comment from nora arjuna
So, it has to be next time? I had the book, red fine tipped pen, hi-liter, steaming coffee at my side, visited the small room, and you told me next time?
OK, Jay, so you got me prepared, for next time.
Till then, I continue with breakfast. :)
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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So, it has to be next time? I had the book, red fine tipped pen, hi-liter, steaming coffee at my side, visited the small room, and you told me next time?
OK, Jay, so you got me prepared, for next time.
Till then, I continue with breakfast. :)
Comment Written 02-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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You are too funny, arjuna! But did you remember to lift the lid? You know how it infuriates men when you leave it down. Seriously... I wanted to present the entirety, but it would have been unbearably long and I'm afraid I wouldn't get a very thoughtful review on the meat of it, coming as soon as I've rebuilt my supply of $$$ to properly promote it. Enjoy your breakfast.
Jay
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Oh, I always lift it. It infuriate me too, to find it down and wet, since we don't just wipe, but use water as well. Oh, what are we talking about?
BTW, you can drop by my store while in your accumulating mode. I got a story that pays a considerable amount. :)
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Arjuna, youve given me a whole new argument against my wife and about 90 percent of American women. I''ll look for your story.
Jay
Comment from rhymer1
You abandoned you inserti0on oh humor in this posting. Why? Still, your prose are fine. My notes while reading below. Cheers, rhymer1
You should consider a section on speed reading. I discovered how to understand Walter Jones. A spped read gives an overall impression. A normal read just leaves me confused. It really works. I now understand him. I used to read all his postings and pass on revieing most of them.
of an Anton Chekhov, a Guy de Maupassant, or even a Samuel Clemens ~ Inadverant opinion expressed in this one. I've read the published works of all of them. Samuel Clements outdhines the other two by three sun=power.
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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You abandoned you inserti0on oh humor in this posting. Why? Still, your prose are fine. My notes while reading below. Cheers, rhymer1
You should consider a section on speed reading. I discovered how to understand Walter Jones. A spped read gives an overall impression. A normal read just leaves me confused. It really works. I now understand him. I used to read all his postings and pass on revieing most of them.
of an Anton Chekhov, a Guy de Maupassant, or even a Samuel Clemens ~ Inadverant opinion expressed in this one. I've read the published works of all of them. Samuel Clements outdhines the other two by three sun=power.
Comment Written 02-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 03-Mar-2007
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Thanks for your always pertinent crits. So, you didn't find as much humor in this one... hmmmm. back to the drawing board. You're too cool!
Jay