How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 8 "Three More Illusion Crashers"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
95 total reviews
Comment from Diane Griffith
That was SO helpful. I must admit I got a bit lost! But I understood most of it. It will help me a lot with my writing.
I realized that I am guilty of ALL the wrong things!
Maybe I should just give up... I didn't know there was so much to learn about writing. But having written three books now. Not very well, but at least I've stuck at it. I will jusy finish my latest novel to the best of my ability.
I will try to take your good advice, before I put 'down my pen' for good, and take some time to enjoy the sunshine. Thank you so much. Diane
reply by the author on 05-Oct-2009
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That was SO helpful. I must admit I got a bit lost! But I understood most of it. It will help me a lot with my writing.
I realized that I am guilty of ALL the wrong things!
Maybe I should just give up... I didn't know there was so much to learn about writing. But having written three books now. Not very well, but at least I've stuck at it. I will jusy finish my latest novel to the best of my ability.
I will try to take your good advice, before I put 'down my pen' for good, and take some time to enjoy the sunshine. Thank you so much. Diane
Comment Written 05-Oct-2009
reply by the author on 05-Oct-2009
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Diane, don't you DARE give up on your writing! I would never have given my first critique of your writing had I thought it would lead to your being disheartened. Writing, like any other skill has to follow a learning curve. You are on that curve. My dear, so am I on that curve. Both of us will be on it the rest of our lives. It doesn't mean that bringing what is inside us outside and sharing it with the world is anything but a joyfully heroic endeavor. Don't give up on it or yourself. Your craft is meant to shine as you continue to polish it.
By the way, the fact that you were a bit lost is testamony to my lack of clarity. As I re-read it (after over a year of leaving it on the fanstory bookshelf) I said to myself this could have been clearer, that could be misleading, this part is just an attempt at cuteness and self-inflation! I'm going to leave it as it is, but I'm going to continue on. I'm only 70 years old. I've got a few more years to improve. And, you've got decades and decades! Bless you and keep forging ahead!
Jay.
Comment from cjvaughn
See how much I'm learning...
I never heard of Author Intrusion before... don't want to do that... nope...
***The reader needs to be part of the unfolding present action of the plot.***
I loved this, and the way you put it down.
Very well done Jay, I'll be back for more, CJ
reply by the author on 22-Apr-2007
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See how much I'm learning...
I never heard of Author Intrusion before... don't want to do that... nope...
***The reader needs to be part of the unfolding present action of the plot.***
I loved this, and the way you put it down.
Very well done Jay, I'll be back for more, CJ
Comment Written 21-Apr-2007
reply by the author on 22-Apr-2007
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Well... about the time I think CJ's finishes the entire series, along come two more crits from you. Thank you so much for your thoughtful reading. Please stay tuned.
Jay
Comment from Peggy Nuckles
O.K. This is the chapter I was looking for. I see what you mean about the dialogue in The Earthquake. I might take another look at that story after all. It will be a good exercise for me to try to rework the passage you were talking about.
It bombed at the box office but it did get an "all time best" certificate. Since my portfolio is pathetically thin, I might just rework it and bundle it up with four others to send to the firstwriter contest.
Thanks for the input.
Peggy
reply by the author on 20-Mar-2007
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O.K. This is the chapter I was looking for. I see what you mean about the dialogue in The Earthquake. I might take another look at that story after all. It will be a good exercise for me to try to rework the passage you were talking about.
It bombed at the box office but it did get an "all time best" certificate. Since my portfolio is pathetically thin, I might just rework it and bundle it up with four others to send to the firstwriter contest.
Thanks for the input.
Peggy
Comment Written 20-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 20-Mar-2007
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You are very welcome, Peggy. I'm glad it helped.
Jay
Comment from Jack Lewis
I hope this makes sense: The phrase, "not all of them good," led me to believe that one of them would be; and the steady upward progression of quality reinforced that idea -- except that I didn't like any of them. (Which I know now is what you intended, but during the reading of the third example, I began to doubt you. It wasn't until "gaggingly set up" that I realized my error.)
In the phrase, "to hurry through a vaguely threatening part of town back there", I'd recommend replacing "a" with "that" (and, personally, I'd drop the phrase that immediately follows, as its the only one that removes me from your concrete world.)
The two sentences of your final paragraph lost me; as I think "he" is the author, rather than the reader, but the reader is still in my mind as the subject from the last paragraph.
Enjoying the read, as always,
Jack
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reply by the author on 21-Feb-2007
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I hope this makes sense: The phrase, "not all of them good," led me to believe that one of them would be; and the steady upward progression of quality reinforced that idea -- except that I didn't like any of them. (Which I know now is what you intended, but during the reading of the third example, I began to doubt you. It wasn't until "gaggingly set up" that I realized my error.)
In the phrase, "to hurry through a vaguely threatening part of town back there", I'd recommend replacing "a" with "that" (and, personally, I'd drop the phrase that immediately follows, as its the only one that removes me from your concrete world.)
The two sentences of your final paragraph lost me; as I think "he" is the author, rather than the reader, but the reader is still in my mind as the subject from the last paragraph.
Enjoying the read, as always,
Jack
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The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
Comment Written 21-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 21-Feb-2007
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Excellent, Jack! Thank you so much for taking the time to read this slowly and thoughtfully. I need input from talented and caring critters like you. I am cutting and pasting to word and checking out your suggestions with the text. I see one (the threatening part of town) that I shall change. But, please know I will scrutinize all of them contextually. You are wonderful!
Jay
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glad to be of help :)
Comment from Guy Anthony De Marco
You're assuming the author is a male, you may want to add in your notes that you're doing so because of expediency :)
In SciFi, the dumping of backgrounds on the readers are known as "As you know"s. It is very intrusive, especially when they're talking about things that are so commonplace that everyone assumes it's common knowledge. The AYK's can really kill a story. As an example, in a world with faster-than-light technology, having a character explain it to another character is like me explaining to you what a 'QWERTY' keyboard is. We'd never have the conversation, and I see it all the time in stories.
Nice work, as usual.
reply by the author on 20-Feb-2007
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You're assuming the author is a male, you may want to add in your notes that you're doing so because of expediency :)
In SciFi, the dumping of backgrounds on the readers are known as "As you know"s. It is very intrusive, especially when they're talking about things that are so commonplace that everyone assumes it's common knowledge. The AYK's can really kill a story. As an example, in a world with faster-than-light technology, having a character explain it to another character is like me explaining to you what a 'QWERTY' keyboard is. We'd never have the conversation, and I see it all the time in stories.
Nice work, as usual.
Comment Written 20-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 20-Feb-2007
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Ha, Guy Anthony! That is too good! I didn't know there was another term for it. Of course, you are right about the expediency thing. I wish English had a sort of neutral term that wasn't so apparently descriminatory. Some writers use the female pronoun (but with the statement of expediency included.) I've even seen writers do one chapter "male" and the next "female" etc. Anyway, thank you for your kind words and your advise.
Jay
Comment from Lokman
Great job here, Jay.
It brings up a question I've been wondering about as i go through, revise my first chapters and see all the times I tell rather than show. Do you think there are times when it is okay?
Most of my reviewers never complained about it, but in the general scheme, it read to me as author intrusion.
Just interested in hearing your thoughts.
Shea
reply by the author on 20-Feb-2007
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Great job here, Jay.
It brings up a question I've been wondering about as i go through, revise my first chapters and see all the times I tell rather than show. Do you think there are times when it is okay?
Most of my reviewers never complained about it, but in the general scheme, it read to me as author intrusion.
Just interested in hearing your thoughts.
Shea
Comment Written 20-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 20-Feb-2007
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It's a thin line at best, isn't it. Sometimes, as I mentioned, the author needs to cover a large expanse, either in time or space, and the only way to do this effectively is through narrative "leaps" past weeks, months or years -- or from California to Massachusetts (though it all seems to boil down to time). I maintain, though I didn't say it in the chapter, that the author has an inner alert system if he is attentive to his process. If you think it is author intrusion you should look closely at it. I'm reminded of Gertrude Stein's words to Hemingway when he gave her his completed book (I believe it was "The Sun Also Rises") to her, fully expecting her praise. Instead, she told him a few days later: "Do it again, Ernest, and this time concentrate."
Thanks for the thoughtful crit and question, Shea.
Jay
Comment from Lady Jane
Now this offers a wealth of information in a short amount of space. Outstanding info, jaysquires. And heaven knows I needed to read it. This is well formatted and written fluidly. You make writing sound so easy :) Thanks for sharing. Janelle
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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Now this offers a wealth of information in a short amount of space. Outstanding info, jaysquires. And heaven knows I needed to read it. This is well formatted and written fluidly. You make writing sound so easy :) Thanks for sharing. Janelle
Comment Written 19-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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You are very kind, Janelle. I wished it was as easy to write as it apparently was to read. I do hope you come back often to read the rest of the series. Thanks,
Jay
Comment from suda
Hello Jay,
Thank you for the creative examples that brought "Being Set Up" home. Having the same characters reappear in all the examples, carried the reader/critter student right to the end.
Your ending was a nice way to sew it all up with a sweet seam.
Below is a sentence that could use your expertise. I stumbled through it a couple of times to make sure, and I believe it needs a word or to be reworded...check it out:
So, as a critter, I ask no more from the writer than to have the incantation of his words on the page (to) so thoroughly engage me that I am oblivious to the tape and staples and glue that hold all the parts together.
I've enjoyed this chapter as I have all of them. Great work. Fun to read and learn.
Susan
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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Hello Jay,
Thank you for the creative examples that brought "Being Set Up" home. Having the same characters reappear in all the examples, carried the reader/critter student right to the end.
Your ending was a nice way to sew it all up with a sweet seam.
Below is a sentence that could use your expertise. I stumbled through it a couple of times to make sure, and I believe it needs a word or to be reworded...check it out:
So, as a critter, I ask no more from the writer than to have the incantation of his words on the page (to) so thoroughly engage me that I am oblivious to the tape and staples and glue that hold all the parts together.
I've enjoyed this chapter as I have all of them. Great work. Fun to read and learn.
Susan
Comment Written 19-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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Thank you so much, Susan, for your thoughtful crit and advise. Actually, I'd considered in an earlier draft just what you suggested, but I opted to leave the "to" out because of its use earlier in the sentence and once later. That would make three "to's" in the sentence. It's possible to leave out the 1st "to." What do you think of that? Tell you what... I'm going to cut and paste your suggestion along with others that critters have made and after the "reviews" start slowing down I'll go in and check them all out. Thank you, though. I ALWAYS appreciate Susan's input. It's always pertinent.
Jay
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Hello Jay,
You know what, I'm going to take my suggestion back. This is a first for me. I read a sentence over many times and if I stumble through a first reading, I reread it aloud until I understand the writer's meaning/thought. I believe I've done a great discredit to being a "critter", and I allowed myself to crit when I was too tired.
Please forgive me for I have sinned (smile). I believe that sentence is perfect the way it stands. Do not cut and paste my suggestion...it's feeble.
I'm learning more from you than I have from my library of books on the craft of writing. (It's really scary how many books I own).
Keep up the lessons, teach, I'm enjoying them.
Susan
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Thank you, Susan, for your message. This is the beauty of getting input from talented and caring individuals: The caring is even more important than the talent. Think about it. How much dedication to language, to take it so seriously, that you agonize over a "to," then concern yourself further about it to recognize your need to recant your advise. It would have been easier to shine it on. In the final wash I forget who recommended what (since I don't cut and paste names). But, the important thing that I find so touching is that YOU knew -- and out of your seriousness to the craft and your self-honesty you felt it necessary to "confess your sin," LOL.
I am moved, though.
Thank you and bless you.
Jay
Comment from Sissy
Hi jay!
Nice job with this one. It was clear, entertaining and instructive! I loved your examples, they really proved your points. It IS hard to get background information in without doing an info dump on the reader, that's for sure! I think I've been guilty of everything here!!! :)
Just a couple things:
so thoroughly engage me that I am oblivious to the tape and staples and glue that hold all the parts together (double that in this line. Consider adjusting one. Can say: '...to the tape and staples and glue holding all the parts...' Could also kick that first 'and' out in betweent 'tape' and 'staples' and just use a comma).
Mary, Mark, Mariah, Marcos --- ahhhhhh! (LOTSA M's here, jay!)
I'm really enjoying this series, jay!
Take care,
Sissy
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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Hi jay!
Nice job with this one. It was clear, entertaining and instructive! I loved your examples, they really proved your points. It IS hard to get background information in without doing an info dump on the reader, that's for sure! I think I've been guilty of everything here!!! :)
Just a couple things:
so thoroughly engage me that I am oblivious to the tape and staples and glue that hold all the parts together (double that in this line. Consider adjusting one. Can say: '...to the tape and staples and glue holding all the parts...' Could also kick that first 'and' out in betweent 'tape' and 'staples' and just use a comma).
Mary, Mark, Mariah, Marcos --- ahhhhhh! (LOTSA M's here, jay!)
I'm really enjoying this series, jay!
Take care,
Sissy
Comment Written 19-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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I like your idea of removing the second "that." I will attend to it. You are the second person to mention the added "and." My God! Haven't you folks ever heard of Gertrude Stein? LOL. I'll change that too. The four "Ms" are supposed to be. I was trying to draw the generations together, since their histories parallel somewhat: Mark --> Marcos; Mary --> Mariah. How clever am I? Thanks my dear.
Jay
Comment from bookishfabler
As I was reading your story about characters and their thoughts. I couldn't help think you read my latest chapter in A NOVEL IDEA, building character. Even MAry is the name of my example character. We defineatly write differently, but I think many of the ideas about character developemnet are simular. I'm not saying that you even read it, because I ddn't see you review. But if you take a glance, I think you'll get a chuckle out of it. Thanks for sharing.
Peace & hugs
bookishfabler
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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As I was reading your story about characters and their thoughts. I couldn't help think you read my latest chapter in A NOVEL IDEA, building character. Even MAry is the name of my example character. We defineatly write differently, but I think many of the ideas about character developemnet are simular. I'm not saying that you even read it, because I ddn't see you review. But if you take a glance, I think you'll get a chuckle out of it. Thanks for sharing.
Peace & hugs
bookishfabler
Comment Written 19-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 19-Feb-2007
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I will definitely take a look at it. Yeah, if I take the time to read something I'm going to go on to adding my comments to it, LOL -- especially with my member bucks being at an all-time low. When you think of it, though, there's not a lot of new stuff to say about dialogue -- just the writer's slant that hopefully gets the reader to look at it in a little different way. Thank you, Bookishfabler, for reading mine. Now, I'll look at yours (at least sometime this morning).
Jay