How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 7 "Micro-Critting The Illusion Crashers"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
91 total reviews
Comment from emrpoems
I must compliment you on writing these instructive chapters. I intend to write a novel and even tough I know that the content will be gripping I have not had the courage to begin since I have no formal training as such. I will be reading closely all that you say so thanks again
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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I must compliment you on writing these instructive chapters. I intend to write a novel and even tough I know that the content will be gripping I have not had the courage to begin since I have no formal training as such. I will be reading closely all that you say so thanks again
Comment Written 20-May-2015
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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You are too kind, my friend. Thank you for the thoughtful comments and the generous rating. Glad to have you aboard.
Comment from Jacqueline M Franklin
Hi, Jay...
Enjoyed this on a lot. (*<*)
This is a really important chapter ALL newbies should HAVE to read. Dialogue tags can really be a job for some people until they get it in their head how to present dialogue without them.
Cheers & Blessings
Keep Smilin'... Jax (*:*)
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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Hi, Jay...
Enjoyed this on a lot. (*<*)
This is a really important chapter ALL newbies should HAVE to read. Dialogue tags can really be a job for some people until they get it in their head how to present dialogue without them.
Cheers & Blessings
Keep Smilin'... Jax (*:*)
Comment Written 20-May-2015
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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Thank you, Jax, for saying that. Yes, while it's designed for helping people crit, it seems to have turned a corner.
Comment from --Turtle.
wrong. I didn't want to ruffle any feathers. I thought it would be better to be a
true. And that ain't bad. So, let's explore it.
(Ha! The effect of the first paragraph on me. I started with a very serious sentence, and quickly divulged into a more--let's take off our shoes and look at this--formality. But I agree, uncompromising first sentence worked for me.
of time?
(Hey, I have. I lose track of time a lot though)
But when it does I come closest to losing track of time.
(I love it when it happens. I'm not so hard a sell though, when I can see or hear the scene, or catch sail on the voice. I love it. I wish I could bottle it and recreate it.
the serious writer(?)" we needn't go any
(why is the question mark in the parenthesis? I wondered. Is it just because the question is as a quote in the middle of the sentence? I thought)
interruption of this illusion.
(At this point in my reading I thought to myself... backstory. I'm going to read on to see what you define as a crasher first... but I'm eager to read and find out here)
* * *
reader's attention has slipped out. For a moment, at least (and perhaps forever),
(tee hee... I'm right... it's going to be backstory. I like being drawn through this thought process though. I didn't follow the rule and scroll down before I started reading, cause I wanted to be surprised.)
confusion over who is speaking. Abuse in this is obvious:
Yes! This too. The ones I want to cry on are the long speeches that ends with a out of place tag. "Bla bla bla bla... three more sentences of talking," shouted Jan looking down.
Wait. You just had an entire outburst and then I find out who it is... most of the time it was clear without, or it's too late to tell me then. And they were supposed to be shouting the whole time. That's not even realistic. Stops me dead in my tracks.
Unnecessary or non-pertinent dialogue: It seems ironic to me that the very effect
(conversation... conversation is not dialogue, it's... painful to read long bouts of, goodness, I hope someone bonks me over the head if I divulge into conversation)
smiles, parentally,
Is parentally a word? I use breastfully as an adverb, so if it's that kind of word, I will look the other way.
reality. Tell him, while you're at it, that if he has the need to demonstrate this
(I thought to myself, I don't know if there's any deep thinking when people start writing conversation, you give them more thought on the act than... that's how people talk, so that's how they figure they should write it. I just say, conversation isn't dialogue.
And trite, superficial conversation is not engaging.
(exactly what I was thinking before I read what I was thinking)
the storyline forward." (story line) At least, that's what google told me.
time, other ways a writer's illusion can be crashed into.
(and I got into a titter again. Backstory... he's going to talk about backstory )
As a reviewer, I found this very entertaining. Too entertaining to be as effective in nitpicking.
--Turtle.
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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wrong. I didn't want to ruffle any feathers. I thought it would be better to be a
true. And that ain't bad. So, let's explore it.
(Ha! The effect of the first paragraph on me. I started with a very serious sentence, and quickly divulged into a more--let's take off our shoes and look at this--formality. But I agree, uncompromising first sentence worked for me.
of time?
(Hey, I have. I lose track of time a lot though)
But when it does I come closest to losing track of time.
(I love it when it happens. I'm not so hard a sell though, when I can see or hear the scene, or catch sail on the voice. I love it. I wish I could bottle it and recreate it.
the serious writer(?)" we needn't go any
(why is the question mark in the parenthesis? I wondered. Is it just because the question is as a quote in the middle of the sentence? I thought)
interruption of this illusion.
(At this point in my reading I thought to myself... backstory. I'm going to read on to see what you define as a crasher first... but I'm eager to read and find out here)
* * *
reader's attention has slipped out. For a moment, at least (and perhaps forever),
(tee hee... I'm right... it's going to be backstory. I like being drawn through this thought process though. I didn't follow the rule and scroll down before I started reading, cause I wanted to be surprised.)
confusion over who is speaking. Abuse in this is obvious:
Yes! This too. The ones I want to cry on are the long speeches that ends with a out of place tag. "Bla bla bla bla... three more sentences of talking," shouted Jan looking down.
Wait. You just had an entire outburst and then I find out who it is... most of the time it was clear without, or it's too late to tell me then. And they were supposed to be shouting the whole time. That's not even realistic. Stops me dead in my tracks.
Unnecessary or non-pertinent dialogue: It seems ironic to me that the very effect
(conversation... conversation is not dialogue, it's... painful to read long bouts of, goodness, I hope someone bonks me over the head if I divulge into conversation)
smiles, parentally,
Is parentally a word? I use breastfully as an adverb, so if it's that kind of word, I will look the other way.
reality. Tell him, while you're at it, that if he has the need to demonstrate this
(I thought to myself, I don't know if there's any deep thinking when people start writing conversation, you give them more thought on the act than... that's how people talk, so that's how they figure they should write it. I just say, conversation isn't dialogue.
And trite, superficial conversation is not engaging.
(exactly what I was thinking before I read what I was thinking)
the storyline forward." (story line) At least, that's what google told me.
time, other ways a writer's illusion can be crashed into.
(and I got into a titter again. Backstory... he's going to talk about backstory )
As a reviewer, I found this very entertaining. Too entertaining to be as effective in nitpicking.
--Turtle.
Comment Written 20-May-2015
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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Thank you, Turtle! I enjoy your down-in-the-trenches crits. You take me along into your thought processes while you are reading. You were right. I had problems with a question in the middle of a longer sentence and put the question mark in parentheses. I'm gonna fix it as soon as I finish thanking you. Parentally is a word according to the on line dictionary. I looked it up when spell check rejected it.
Again, thanks for your thoughtful and generous crit.
Comment from madhatter1977
Hi, Jay, this makes a lot of sense to me as a novice and I can understand your last critique of my story. I like your sense of holding a mirror up to reality when writing a story and am not sure I do it all the time so this is a very handy briefing! Best wishes to you, my friend, Pete :)
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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Hi, Jay, this makes a lot of sense to me as a novice and I can understand your last critique of my story. I like your sense of holding a mirror up to reality when writing a story and am not sure I do it all the time so this is a very handy briefing! Best wishes to you, my friend, Pete :)
Comment Written 20-May-2015
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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Thank you, Pete. I'm glad you found this helpful. I hope others do as well. Quite a bit more to follow. Hope you're coming along.
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Thanks, Jay, Pete :)
Comment from Donovan
Reading this reminded me when I am dragged to church. The sermon is always directed to me. I am guilty of every sin that is presented and I get a sharp poke in the ribs to remind me. If I count the bruises then I will know the number of transgression that were covered. I, without exception, wonder how this preacher, who I would not recognize outside the sanctuary, knows my life in such detail? Your article is the same. I am guilty of all the errors you list and have no doubt as you continue with the next sections there will not be any exclusions. So depressing. On one hand I am going to Hell and on the other, no one is going to read my book. At least I should be glad you do not write about the sinful nature of man and do it with perfect form. Hmm, maybe that would save me from going to church. Such a conundrum. Your writing always flows, it is always interesting and keeps my attention. Well, I have just been called to dinner. I asked what we are having and the reply was she doesn't know, she hasn't seen the menu. Why does the minister ever talk about that?
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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Reading this reminded me when I am dragged to church. The sermon is always directed to me. I am guilty of every sin that is presented and I get a sharp poke in the ribs to remind me. If I count the bruises then I will know the number of transgression that were covered. I, without exception, wonder how this preacher, who I would not recognize outside the sanctuary, knows my life in such detail? Your article is the same. I am guilty of all the errors you list and have no doubt as you continue with the next sections there will not be any exclusions. So depressing. On one hand I am going to Hell and on the other, no one is going to read my book. At least I should be glad you do not write about the sinful nature of man and do it with perfect form. Hmm, maybe that would save me from going to church. Such a conundrum. Your writing always flows, it is always interesting and keeps my attention. Well, I have just been called to dinner. I asked what we are having and the reply was she doesn't know, she hasn't seen the menu. Why does the minister ever talk about that?
Comment Written 20-May-2015
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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You have the funniest, most pertinent and liveliest crits, my friend. I've read your stuff (though not enough of it), and all I can say is you don't spare yourself in your humor. You are an excellent writer. You could have gone fishing instead of attending this sermon. No sin in evidence. Thanks for being here, Donovan!
Comment from Janet7053
mezmersnoodled - wow!
Critting 101 and 201 This seems like the sophomore course rather than a freshman one. People can learn so much from this. The speaker tag is a needed issue to tackle.
I often talk about grammar issues as being distractions. Never thought about the deep particulars of zoning into the illusion or being faced with an illusion crasher. Thanks for writing and teaching.
Every word has purpose and power; I believe that!
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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mezmersnoodled - wow!
Critting 101 and 201 This seems like the sophomore course rather than a freshman one. People can learn so much from this. The speaker tag is a needed issue to tackle.
I often talk about grammar issues as being distractions. Never thought about the deep particulars of zoning into the illusion or being faced with an illusion crasher. Thanks for writing and teaching.
Every word has purpose and power; I believe that!
Comment Written 20-May-2015
reply by the author on 20-May-2015
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Janet, I should be hiring you as my publicist. You are too cool! Thanks for your generosity in your words and your rating.
Comment from Phyllis Stewart
Good essay, except for one thing: you repeated the warning against starting with scenery about four times. Remove three of them.
Love this: When the reader reads dialogue is he not eavesdropping? He is listening in on stuff that's really none of his business.
I write mostly dialogue, so that we all can eavesdrop and let the characters tell their own story without my interference. Love the concept of eavesdropping... you hit the bullseye with that one!
reply by the author on 15-May-2015
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Good essay, except for one thing: you repeated the warning against starting with scenery about four times. Remove three of them.
Love this: When the reader reads dialogue is he not eavesdropping? He is listening in on stuff that's really none of his business.
I write mostly dialogue, so that we all can eavesdrop and let the characters tell their own story without my interference. Love the concept of eavesdropping... you hit the bullseye with that one!
Comment Written 15-May-2015
reply by the author on 15-May-2015
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Oh, you went on ahead, in spite of the 26 point font warning of same. You're a bit of a rebel, aren't you, Phyllis? Is Tom at his stuff again? You said the same thing in both crits, but this one is for the next chapter.
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That's weird, since I never read this chapter. I do obey your warning. :)
Comment from cjvaughn
Hey Jay,
Ahhh...
With only two characters, a male and a female, as long as only dialogue follows, uninterrupted by narrative or description, tags are only needed the first time each speaks.
**The whole paragraph was very helpful and interesting.
I liked this a lot Jay. It makes a lot of sense, and I know I hate reading stuff that drags on and has nothing to do with the story.
It's kind of like breaking your promise to the reader... right
Nice job, CJ
reply by the author on 22-Apr-2007
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Hey Jay,
Ahhh...
With only two characters, a male and a female, as long as only dialogue follows, uninterrupted by narrative or description, tags are only needed the first time each speaks.
**The whole paragraph was very helpful and interesting.
I liked this a lot Jay. It makes a lot of sense, and I know I hate reading stuff that drags on and has nothing to do with the story.
It's kind of like breaking your promise to the reader... right
Nice job, CJ
Comment Written 21-Apr-2007
reply by the author on 22-Apr-2007
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One more time, CJ, I am so very appreciative of your close reading of my series. This has to be the last one, doesn't it? Doesn't matter, though. Just know you are valuable to me.
Jay
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Hey Jay,
You're very valuable to me as well, I am learning a lot.
Trust me, you can't get rid of me that easy. LOL Some days I have more time and when I read your stuff, I like to have the time to take notes so I don't forget the good stuff...
Plus, blame yourself for sending me over to Simon Morris, I'm working my way through his book too. Hugs, CJ
Comment from Peggy Nuckles
Thanks for pointing this chapter out to me, Jay. I'll read the next one right away. Your chapters are packed with good advice. I need to print them off and refer to them frequently.
Peggy
reply by the author on 20-Mar-2007
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Thanks for pointing this chapter out to me, Jay. I'll read the next one right away. Your chapters are packed with good advice. I need to print them off and refer to them frequently.
Peggy
Comment Written 20-Mar-2007
reply by the author on 20-Mar-2007
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That is high praise, Peggy, to have you print them out. I may do it myself, so I can review my words and start practicing what I preach. Thanks for your interest.
Jay
Comment from Sissy
Hi jay,
Nice job with this one. It took me forever to get to it, sorry about that!! I liked your simple explanation about dialogue tags! Very well stated. As for the part about unnecessary dialogue, I think you are definitely right!
Some stuff to check:
I don't think, the more that I look at it, that it's truly profound. Only profoundly true
(I'm having trouble with the double 'that' here. Can you kick the first?)
The better the fiction the more vital is the mystical (I use this word, "mystical" a lot because I can't find an exacting synonym) connection between the writer and me. (I found this a bit awkwardly phrased. I still can't wrap myself around 'the more vital is the..' I can't come up with a suggestion either. I keep thinking the 'is' should come after 'connection'???? Not sure.)
In (C)hapter 2 of How This Critter
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue, such as I created above, can grow into something profound if it is not terminate
(a lotta commas here? You could probably drop the first after 'appears', and/or the one before 'such'...what do you think?)
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue, such as I created above, can grow into something profound if it is not terminated by their shared denial and their subsequent departure, but is allowed to go to its natural, gulf-narrowing conclusion at which one reaches a brotherhood of understanding and acceptance ... and ... and ... " And how the writer goes on and on!
(HOLY SMOKES, jay. I know you are making a point, but this is one BIG long run on sentence!)
That's it
Sissy
reply by the author on 17-Feb-2007
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Hi jay,
Nice job with this one. It took me forever to get to it, sorry about that!! I liked your simple explanation about dialogue tags! Very well stated. As for the part about unnecessary dialogue, I think you are definitely right!
Some stuff to check:
I don't think, the more that I look at it, that it's truly profound. Only profoundly true
(I'm having trouble with the double 'that' here. Can you kick the first?)
The better the fiction the more vital is the mystical (I use this word, "mystical" a lot because I can't find an exacting synonym) connection between the writer and me. (I found this a bit awkwardly phrased. I still can't wrap myself around 'the more vital is the..' I can't come up with a suggestion either. I keep thinking the 'is' should come after 'connection'???? Not sure.)
In (C)hapter 2 of How This Critter
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue, such as I created above, can grow into something profound if it is not terminate
(a lotta commas here? You could probably drop the first after 'appears', and/or the one before 'such'...what do you think?)
And what appears, to the uninitiated, as meaningless dialogue, such as I created above, can grow into something profound if it is not terminated by their shared denial and their subsequent departure, but is allowed to go to its natural, gulf-narrowing conclusion at which one reaches a brotherhood of understanding and acceptance ... and ... and ... " And how the writer goes on and on!
(HOLY SMOKES, jay. I know you are making a point, but this is one BIG long run on sentence!)
That's it
Sissy
Comment Written 17-Feb-2007
reply by the author on 17-Feb-2007
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Thank you, as usual, Sissy for your right-on-the-mark crit. Last things first. Oh, yes, it was a long, run-on sentence. I knew it was. It was intended to be. And you weren't the only one to mention it. I thought I had done a good enough job pushing the blame off on the phantom writer -- but I suppose, in the final analysis it must be first intelligible. So, your point is well taken on that. On your first point, YES, the first "that" can (and should be removed) -- and will when I go back this evening and take a fresh look at it. Thank you for pointing it out.
I will be posting the next chapter, I'm hoping in about two hours. You might want to keep your eyes open so you can make the big bucks on it. I'm rather proud of it.
Thanks, again, Sissy. You're always appreciated.
Jay