How This Critter Crits
Viewing comments for Chapter 11 "Good, Evil and Warts"GROWTH? ADULATION? HURRY -- CHOOSE!
53 total reviews
Comment from Gert sherwood
Hello Jay the part about good and evil got my attention
What I try and believe is--
There is no such thing as pure good or pure evil, least of all in people. In the best of us there are thoughts or deeds that are wicked, and in the worst of us, at least some virtue. An adversary is not one who does loathsome acts for their own sake.
One always has a reason that to them is justification
My cat when se was alive killed mice.
Now did that make her evil? I don't think so, and the cat doesn't think so, but I would bet the mice had different thoughts.
Gert
Read more at: http://www.azquotes.com/quotes/topics/pure-evil.html
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Hello Jay the part about good and evil got my attention
What I try and believe is--
There is no such thing as pure good or pure evil, least of all in people. In the best of us there are thoughts or deeds that are wicked, and in the worst of us, at least some virtue. An adversary is not one who does loathsome acts for their own sake.
One always has a reason that to them is justification
My cat when se was alive killed mice.
Now did that make her evil? I don't think so, and the cat doesn't think so, but I would bet the mice had different thoughts.
Gert
Read more at: http://www.azquotes.com/quotes/topics/pure-evil.html
Comment Written 20-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Thanks, Gert, for reading. Glad you enjoyed it. It's hard enough to deal with people. I don't moralize over animals. LOL, you are too funny.
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You are welcome Jay
Gert
Comment from ravenblack
You are so right and comparing a writer to a director, the actor as giving a character backstory that a writer should supply, works very well. Characters that come across as either pure good or pure evil are not characters but caricatures. Case in point- Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader.
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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You are so right and comparing a writer to a director, the actor as giving a character backstory that a writer should supply, works very well. Characters that come across as either pure good or pure evil are not characters but caricatures. Case in point- Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader.
Comment Written 20-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Thank you, Ed. This post was designed more for the beginning writer, not the seasoned ones. Point well taken about Luke and Darth.
Comment from Pantygynt
Having got half way through this review FS or my computer, I know not which shot off on a sidetrack of it own so I'll start again.
Back in the winter of 1975/6, when I was a mature drama student, I interviewed the English playwright, Howard Brenton, prior to directing a play of his, "Christie in Love" as part of my degree course.
This Christie of the title was not the actress Julie Christie, but the infinitely more sinister serial killer and necrophiliac John Reginald Halliday Christie erstwhile resident of 10 Rillington Place, London. It was not Brenton's intention to whitewash this undoubtedly evil man but to try to remove the "warts" of which you speak that had been attached to him by the press. Brenton's thesis as he expressed himself to me was "Is a hero still a hero when he's having a shit?"
By association is a villain still a villain when he's eating his breakfast or undertaking any other innocuous task? So we are back again with your thesis so well set out here, and I quote you:
"Secularly speaking, there is no person, real or invented, who is pure evil. If he were pure evil and real, he would be dead, because no one including himself can exist as pure evil. If he were invented as purely evil, he could not exist because he would not be believable--to the reader and to himself, as the writer.
Again, secularly speaking, flip the concept: there is no person, real or invented, who is pure good. In both the real and the invented version pure good cannot exist because it is the pinnacle of a standard that is impossible to live up to. In other words he or she would be unbelievable.
As writers we must hold each character up to the scrutiny of the rule-of-not-quite:"
In Brenton's play Christie is portrayed at the outset as the monster the press of the 1950s created, and as the play progresses we see him as the bully-ee plaything of the police who eventually hang him.
My point is that journalists cannot be considered in the same light as writers (in the sense you use the word) as their job is to create unbelievable monsters - that we believe in! They are not interested in the "not quite" of the fictional writer but in the "way beyond" that is the gutter press.
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Having got half way through this review FS or my computer, I know not which shot off on a sidetrack of it own so I'll start again.
Back in the winter of 1975/6, when I was a mature drama student, I interviewed the English playwright, Howard Brenton, prior to directing a play of his, "Christie in Love" as part of my degree course.
This Christie of the title was not the actress Julie Christie, but the infinitely more sinister serial killer and necrophiliac John Reginald Halliday Christie erstwhile resident of 10 Rillington Place, London. It was not Brenton's intention to whitewash this undoubtedly evil man but to try to remove the "warts" of which you speak that had been attached to him by the press. Brenton's thesis as he expressed himself to me was "Is a hero still a hero when he's having a shit?"
By association is a villain still a villain when he's eating his breakfast or undertaking any other innocuous task? So we are back again with your thesis so well set out here, and I quote you:
"Secularly speaking, there is no person, real or invented, who is pure evil. If he were pure evil and real, he would be dead, because no one including himself can exist as pure evil. If he were invented as purely evil, he could not exist because he would not be believable--to the reader and to himself, as the writer.
Again, secularly speaking, flip the concept: there is no person, real or invented, who is pure good. In both the real and the invented version pure good cannot exist because it is the pinnacle of a standard that is impossible to live up to. In other words he or she would be unbelievable.
As writers we must hold each character up to the scrutiny of the rule-of-not-quite:"
In Brenton's play Christie is portrayed at the outset as the monster the press of the 1950s created, and as the play progresses we see him as the bully-ee plaything of the police who eventually hang him.
My point is that journalists cannot be considered in the same light as writers (in the sense you use the word) as their job is to create unbelievable monsters - that we believe in! They are not interested in the "not quite" of the fictional writer but in the "way beyond" that is the gutter press.
Comment Written 20-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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What a remarkable crit, Pantygynt. Before going any further, I want you to know I'm adding you to my "Thumbs Up" folder--which I have because I'm running a month behind in my nominations.
Yours is a special crit because you went beyond, or deeper than, the mechanics of the post and addressed the deeper issues of the perception of the "selling of" good and evil. I'm so happy you pointed out in the last paragraph the difference between the journalist and the fiction writer. I believe you are absolutely correct, and the journalist feeds the unsated appetite of perhaps man's "shadow" or animal nature. I'm trying not to be judgmental about that, either. If a need exists, there WILL be an agency to fill it. It is simply an unlegislated fact.
I feel I am honored to be critted by a writer/director. And I draw on the wisdom of your observation humbly.
Jay
Comment from thee-name
Excellent chapter. Seen no mistakes. Writing was interesting.
Again, secularly speaking, flip the concept: there is no person, real or invented, who is pure good. In both the real and invented version pure good cannot exist because it is the pinnacle of a standard that is impossible to live up to. In other words he or she would be unbelievable.
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Excellent chapter. Seen no mistakes. Writing was interesting.
Again, secularly speaking, flip the concept: there is no person, real or invented, who is pure good. In both the real and invented version pure good cannot exist because it is the pinnacle of a standard that is impossible to live up to. In other words he or she would be unbelievable.
Comment Written 20-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Thank you, thee-name, for the review.
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thank you!
Comment from winespiller
Very enjoyable to read some non-fiction finally. You obviously have a good command of language and structure, I will try to learn from this great piece.
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Very enjoyable to read some non-fiction finally. You obviously have a good command of language and structure, I will try to learn from this great piece.
Comment Written 20-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Thank you, Winespiller. I'm so grateful for your crit. You are kind and generous.
Comment from Gypsy Blue Rose
Hello Jay Squires,
Good, Evil and Warts-is about the concept that people can't be all good or all evil, and as writers, we have to give good characteristics to the evil guys and bad ones to the good guys.
Good job!
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Hello Jay Squires,
Good, Evil and Warts-is about the concept that people can't be all good or all evil, and as writers, we have to give good characteristics to the evil guys and bad ones to the good guys.
Good job!
Comment Written 19-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 20-Jul-2015
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Pretty decent summary, Gypsy. Thanks for reading and for your kind words.
Comment from Nan Beeson
I liked the part about the two girls looking alike and unable to differentiate between them. The spelling bee was fun, and especially the part of his mom and dad being two peas in a pod. I liked Anthony Hopkins reply that "One is not born with a fanatical craving for fresh-cut, raw flesh." I enjoyed the encore dialogue in this piece, and had to put my thinking cap on a couple of times...especially about the series, "Believe."
I believe it is true hat we are directors not only for the screen, but also as directors of our lives and the many turns and twists that one takes, such as the similarities in this story. Thank you for sharing this story since I also enjoyed the hosts and shows of yesteryear brought to memory.
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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I liked the part about the two girls looking alike and unable to differentiate between them. The spelling bee was fun, and especially the part of his mom and dad being two peas in a pod. I liked Anthony Hopkins reply that "One is not born with a fanatical craving for fresh-cut, raw flesh." I enjoyed the encore dialogue in this piece, and had to put my thinking cap on a couple of times...especially about the series, "Believe."
I believe it is true hat we are directors not only for the screen, but also as directors of our lives and the many turns and twists that one takes, such as the similarities in this story. Thank you for sharing this story since I also enjoyed the hosts and shows of yesteryear brought to memory.
Comment Written 19-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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Thank you, Nan. Glad you could read this and take away something from it.
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Jay,
I feel so inadequate to review your fabulous writings. I do love reading them--and that is why I read them--but they are so ahead of my beginner's knowledge, and I have so much to learn of the wonderful words and expression's you use.
I feel I am doing a discredit to your work by even attempting to give a credible review. I hope you will forgive me for not being in a category worthy to judge such wonderful literature, but feel so guilty reading them, and your not receiving credit for same. (although it is obvious you do not need my two-cents worth.)
I am still at the grammar stage, and having a pretty hard tine at that. I make all the corrections you so kindly make, and do appreciate it, and know it must be such a bore for you to read them and make the corrections. Please do not feel obligated to do so, and I will understand.
Your willing and grateful student, nan
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Nan, you worry too much. I enjoy reading your reviews of my posts, and there is more depth to your posts than most I read here. I can look beyond grammar when I see the mind shimmering beyond it.
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You sure put my mind at ease, Jay. I felt I was doing you a discredit, and did not mean to. In fact your last post was unexpected and quite different from the novels...at least I thought so. If you are not just saying that to not hurt my feelings, I will feel honored to be deemed worthy to continue to review them to the best of my ability.
The reason I spoke as I did is because I have received reviews from beginners on their first day of joining FS and received two and three stars, even on ones that happened to be a six star. That is the reason I thought you might have felt the same way with mine.
I promise not to bring it up again. I love your integrity and thoughtful person that you are....nan:))
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I guess we'll just have to agree to love and respect each other.
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That will be just wonderful....
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That will be just wonderful....
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I still don't know why your crits are identified as by Anonymous Member.
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My reason is because I do not know how to get the FanStory icon on my computer and only way I can access it. It makes all so much harder for me to manipulate on FanStory.
I get them too, and it is very frustrating because sometimes they do not even make sense.
I do hope you received my six star review a couple of days ago.
If you know how to get the icon on it, I will be most grateful.
Thanks,
Nan
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I am completely illiterate when it comes to computers. But, Tom should be able to tell you exactly what to do. Just tell him your reviews are showing "anonymous reader".
Comment from LIJ Red
The old mountain witchy woman glared at my wart and it withered. I guess warts
do that. Bell curves. Universe is eat up with them. Tiny traces of interesting hot and of cold and a great bulge of tepid in the middle. And in this post, essential advice in clear calm language. Excellent.
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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The old mountain witchy woman glared at my wart and it withered. I guess warts
do that. Bell curves. Universe is eat up with them. Tiny traces of interesting hot and of cold and a great bulge of tepid in the middle. And in this post, essential advice in clear calm language. Excellent.
Comment Written 19-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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Thank you, Red. Compound W works for me. And you don't have the written side effect warnings you get with a bottle of old mountain witchy woman. Appreciate your reading, my friend.
Comment from Dashjianta
An enjoyable and entertaining read, Jay. I like the way you go through the gist of the interviews and link in back round to how it applies to writing characters too--though I'd add the caveat that badly presented or poorly thought out/overused back story can destroy believability to.
Suggestions:
'scuse my ignorance, but is it the 'Today Show' of 'Today's Show'? You've used both.
asked him was, "(Your) your character was pretty mean
Anyway, the words, themselves didn't matter.
--Delete the second comma?
stint on the treadmill, though, that
--you haver an extra space before 'that'
I don't remember Hopkins(') exact words
(PS. Sorry for not reviewing your last post. My brain went AWOL on me. Everything I tried to read went in through my eyes and fell out the back of my head without its meaning sticking, so I took a complete break from FS.)
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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An enjoyable and entertaining read, Jay. I like the way you go through the gist of the interviews and link in back round to how it applies to writing characters too--though I'd add the caveat that badly presented or poorly thought out/overused back story can destroy believability to.
Suggestions:
'scuse my ignorance, but is it the 'Today Show' of 'Today's Show'? You've used both.
asked him was, "(Your) your character was pretty mean
Anyway, the words, themselves didn't matter.
--Delete the second comma?
stint on the treadmill, though, that
--you haver an extra space before 'that'
I don't remember Hopkins(') exact words
(PS. Sorry for not reviewing your last post. My brain went AWOL on me. Everything I tried to read went in through my eyes and fell out the back of my head without its meaning sticking, so I took a complete break from FS.)
Comment Written 19-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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Many thanks, Alex! Got em all taken care of. Your eagle eye is appreciated. I didn't know you didn't review my last post. Egads! that means there are some undetected nits in it. You are valuable to me. Now go rest up.
Comment from Fridayauthor
Nice piece that makes good reading, Jay.
Come on back over the hill and we can discuss it at length, over a beer!
"And the bottom line: the character of Hannibal Lecter was not pure evil." (I kept wanting to change it to..."There is a reason why the character of Hannibal Lecter was evil."
I think the problem is the word "pure" meaning ablolute to some people, which is nonsense, like perfect and all those other misused words...
But that's fodder for an entirely different rant...
Good job!
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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Nice piece that makes good reading, Jay.
Come on back over the hill and we can discuss it at length, over a beer!
"And the bottom line: the character of Hannibal Lecter was not pure evil." (I kept wanting to change it to..."There is a reason why the character of Hannibal Lecter was evil."
I think the problem is the word "pure" meaning ablolute to some people, which is nonsense, like perfect and all those other misused words...
But that's fodder for an entirely different rant...
Good job!
Comment Written 19-Jul-2015
reply by the author on 19-Jul-2015
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Thank you, Ray. I'll check out the use of "pure evil". Did you consider re-posting just a teaser of those two plays and inviting members to watch them be performed? My daughter wants the days of the performance so she can arrange time off and we could go camping (SHE LOVES CAMPING) the night before. If it works out I want to invite my granddaughter who is taking drama in college. We'll let you know more as the time approaches.
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As the dates, September 26 and 27 are more than two months off, I thought I'd take your suggestion, but post around Labor day. We still haven't discussed the plays anymore as they are tied up at present with Neil Simon's "Chapter Two" which I saw this weekend. The 26th is Saturday at 7:30 and the 27th is Sunday, at 3:00 in the afternoon.
You saw what we have for room here; if we don't have company, you're welcome for any to stay here.
I appreciate everyone's interest, Jay.
Where is your granddaughter schooling?
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I think it will be my daughter, my granddaughter and grandson and me. They are looking forward to camping out with me--a lot more than I am looking forward to it. My Granddaughter goes to Bakersfield Community College. Her brother is a Junior in high school.
I'm thinking it would be the Saturday night performance, so we could get an early start Sunday to come back for the kids' school. Is there a dress code for the evening performance?
Thanks, Jay