Experiences of Death
Viewing comments for Chapter 4 "The Rose"Metre ... Mixed
9 total reviews
Comment from Cheryl In Minnesota
This is really intensely beautiful. A real gem. The rhythm looks perfect to me. I don't find any flaws or syllable mis-counts. This is my favorite style of poem. Well done! Strong imagery like "each thorn is sharp..." really add to the strength of the poem.
reply by the author on 12-Feb-2012
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This is really intensely beautiful. A real gem. The rhythm looks perfect to me. I don't find any flaws or syllable mis-counts. This is my favorite style of poem. Well done! Strong imagery like "each thorn is sharp..." really add to the strength of the poem.
Comment Written 11-Feb-2012
reply by the author on 12-Feb-2012
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Many Thanks Cheryl, much appreciated...just needed the expert opinion to make sure I have the hang of the sonnets before I embark on any more...once again many thanks.
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You honor me. I am no expert. Your poem is wonderful!
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Many thanks Cheryl...maybe I could call on you in the future for review and critique.
Comment from poetbear
You have blwn me away again with the muses' touch.
Great use of imagery and metaphor.
Reads well and flow well.
Makes sense towards a greater truth.
Must read for topic and technique.
reply by the author on 27-Oct-2011
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You have blwn me away again with the muses' touch.
Great use of imagery and metaphor.
Reads well and flow well.
Makes sense towards a greater truth.
Must read for topic and technique.
Comment Written 27-Oct-2011
reply by the author on 27-Oct-2011
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Many thanks.
Comment from easyeverett
I always give five stars and then
try to help. You say this is and English
sonnet yet your iambic pentameter is
a bit off. Example:
a RRAYED BEAU ty she dis PLAYS her GRACE
The meter for iambic petameter is like this:
da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
Your meter reads like this:
da DUM DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
SHARP each THORN CRU el SWEET ness TO her FACE
The next line is also a trochee
re MINDS of a SON clothed LOVE him BROKE
I'm not sure what that means but the meter
is off.
re MINDS of a SON clothed LOVE him BROKE
Read it out loud and somtimes you can spot
the areas where meter needs some work.
Good luck on your writing. Just remember if
you write a sonnet whether Spencerian or English
(Shakespearean) it is done in iambic pentameter
unless you are making up your own sonnet and then
call it your own instead of English. easyeverett
reply by the author on 10-Sep-2011
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I always give five stars and then
try to help. You say this is and English
sonnet yet your iambic pentameter is
a bit off. Example:
a RRAYED BEAU ty she dis PLAYS her GRACE
The meter for iambic petameter is like this:
da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
Your meter reads like this:
da DUM DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
SHARP each THORN CRU el SWEET ness TO her FACE
The next line is also a trochee
re MINDS of a SON clothed LOVE him BROKE
I'm not sure what that means but the meter
is off.
re MINDS of a SON clothed LOVE him BROKE
Read it out loud and somtimes you can spot
the areas where meter needs some work.
Good luck on your writing. Just remember if
you write a sonnet whether Spencerian or English
(Shakespearean) it is done in iambic pentameter
unless you are making up your own sonnet and then
call it your own instead of English. easyeverett
Comment Written 10-Sep-2011
reply by the author on 10-Sep-2011
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This is a bit of a problem for me...scansion. My poem is written as far as I can see refering to technical syllables. The Oxford Enlish Dictionary would ascribe Arrayed with one accented syllable were as scansion has it differently. Any help much appreciated.
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My best advice is to Goggle Shakespearean sonnets and read his sonnets to get the rhythm, Tiy also use an accented word to start a line like SHARP. Always read it out loud and if you have to force it to sound smooth then if is probably wrong. By the way I sent you a scansion of my poem Letter To The Future which you deducted a star because you said a few lines were not correct. Read the scansion I sent you and you will see that it is perfect. I rarely make mistakes on meter. easy
Comment from Pman 31
Very interesting analogies of a rose. Poem is well constructed and it keeps the reader engaged with it's intrigue. A good composition.
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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Very interesting analogies of a rose. Poem is well constructed and it keeps the reader engaged with it's intrigue. A good composition.
Comment Written 09-Sep-2011
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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Glad you enjoyed.
Comment from rama devi
Second review
The word arrayed is usually read as ARRayed not arRAYed-that is the problem, as I hear this word with an accent on the first syllable. maybe it is a matter of diction?
Arrayed beauty she displays her grace,
The rest of the line is fine, but this first word sound like forced scansion.
ProFOUND and SOMEwhat QUIet, STRONG, full OF light. -scansion off
Her PEtals TELL her STOry, GROWTH, stern PACE, --scansion sounds slightly forced but acceptable here
Rich SCARlet BLOOM deLIGHTS in HEART, much SLEIGHT. --scansion sounds slightly forced
Her twisted tail begins, thorns grow, dark cloak, --the meter is okay here but the phrasing choppy and awkward in flow.
*in these two lines the word sharp sets the accent on first beat-
Sharp, each thorn cruel sweetness to her face.
Sharp, each thorn a hurt see her grow, such hope,
or if read as an iambic rhythm, it forces unnatural scansion by emphasizing EACH
sharp EACH thorn
Vocalizing these three words aloud may help you see what i mean,
Delighting through her summer joy her place. --good meter but odd phasing
Her life is full, short, hopen, cursed rose, --good meter but off phrasing
Reminds of a son clothed love him broke. --scansion off and awkward grammar, too
reMINDS of A son CLOTHED love HIM broke
Sins weight and written law his Fathers blows, ---very strange lines--does not make sense but meter is fine.
Had he not the cups fullness our thorns choke. --ditto
At Fathers throne beloved come, as one, --good meter and phasing
Because submitting, never work undone. --good meter and fluid flow but the grammar is off, making it sound a bit forced, too.
First review (two stars--well intentioned!)
Warm welcome to fanstory. This has potential to be a good sonnet but needs a lot of work on some issues relating to sonnet form. I strongly recommend visiting the sonnet contest page as they have a wonderfully detailed description of the nuances of sonnet form as well as detailed explanation of the meter, which has to be iambic pentameter.
Scansion issues plague most of the lines in your sonnet, where the accented beat does not naturally fall on every second syllable, as it should in this meter. Also, not all your lines even have ten syllables...some have nine, like line one and some more than ten, like line two.
*
Her life is full, short, hopen, cursed rose,
Did you mean hopen or open?
* this line does not fully make sense-
Reminds of a son clothed love him broke.
*Spag issues here and awkward phrasing-
Sins weight and written law his Father(')s blows,
*here too-ditto-
Had he not the cups fullness our thorn(')s choke.
*The closing couplet is more lucid and well phrased than previous lines, but also has a spag issue.
At Father(')s throne beloved come, as one,
Because submitting, never work undone.
Please go through the sonnet description and iambic pentameter description carefully and let me know if you have nay questions. I will be glad to return for a second review if you are receptive to critique.
Warm regards,
rama devi
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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Second review
The word arrayed is usually read as ARRayed not arRAYed-that is the problem, as I hear this word with an accent on the first syllable. maybe it is a matter of diction?
Arrayed beauty she displays her grace,
The rest of the line is fine, but this first word sound like forced scansion.
ProFOUND and SOMEwhat QUIet, STRONG, full OF light. -scansion off
Her PEtals TELL her STOry, GROWTH, stern PACE, --scansion sounds slightly forced but acceptable here
Rich SCARlet BLOOM deLIGHTS in HEART, much SLEIGHT. --scansion sounds slightly forced
Her twisted tail begins, thorns grow, dark cloak, --the meter is okay here but the phrasing choppy and awkward in flow.
*in these two lines the word sharp sets the accent on first beat-
Sharp, each thorn cruel sweetness to her face.
Sharp, each thorn a hurt see her grow, such hope,
or if read as an iambic rhythm, it forces unnatural scansion by emphasizing EACH
sharp EACH thorn
Vocalizing these three words aloud may help you see what i mean,
Delighting through her summer joy her place. --good meter but odd phasing
Her life is full, short, hopen, cursed rose, --good meter but off phrasing
Reminds of a son clothed love him broke. --scansion off and awkward grammar, too
reMINDS of A son CLOTHED love HIM broke
Sins weight and written law his Fathers blows, ---very strange lines--does not make sense but meter is fine.
Had he not the cups fullness our thorns choke. --ditto
At Fathers throne beloved come, as one, --good meter and phasing
Because submitting, never work undone. --good meter and fluid flow but the grammar is off, making it sound a bit forced, too.
First review (two stars--well intentioned!)
Warm welcome to fanstory. This has potential to be a good sonnet but needs a lot of work on some issues relating to sonnet form. I strongly recommend visiting the sonnet contest page as they have a wonderfully detailed description of the nuances of sonnet form as well as detailed explanation of the meter, which has to be iambic pentameter.
Scansion issues plague most of the lines in your sonnet, where the accented beat does not naturally fall on every second syllable, as it should in this meter. Also, not all your lines even have ten syllables...some have nine, like line one and some more than ten, like line two.
*
Her life is full, short, hopen, cursed rose,
Did you mean hopen or open?
* this line does not fully make sense-
Reminds of a son clothed love him broke.
*Spag issues here and awkward phrasing-
Sins weight and written law his Father(')s blows,
*here too-ditto-
Had he not the cups fullness our thorn(')s choke.
*The closing couplet is more lucid and well phrased than previous lines, but also has a spag issue.
At Father(')s throne beloved come, as one,
Because submitting, never work undone.
Please go through the sonnet description and iambic pentameter description carefully and let me know if you have nay questions. I will be glad to return for a second review if you are receptive to critique.
Warm regards,
rama devi
Comment Written 09-Sep-2011
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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Ar-ray`-ed bea`-uty she` dis-plays` her grace`
That is my idea of iambic pentameter. ` ACCENTED SYLLABLE.
Explain to me how you would suggest the fist five feet...
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Hello Bicpen (nice pen name--literally! LOL) I have made an extensive second review--hope it helps.
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Check your english dictionary....otherwise back to the drawing board.
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rama please explain to me why scansion...spelt with an s...can have the same feet as the syllables of an oxford dictionary and that is were I truy to take my root words from and yet be soooo different from this form. Example the English Oxford Dictionary affords one accented sllable within the word arrayed. This happens to be at the same point as I take my accented syllanble from.
ARR-ay-ed is scansion...am I right?
However, ar-Ray-ed is by the Oxford Dictionary the accented syllable only within this word.
There are technical rules which I can list you for distinguishing the no. of syllables within one word and wher the accented syllable...singular...is to be found. Now I know this is a difference of opinion but it seems to make quite a difference within the finished article of any poem.
Im interested...
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You are totally right that the first syllable of arrayed is unaccented--I should have looked it up because I do speak with an Indian accent (having lived abroad for 20 years). But the other scansion issues are still there (other lines mentioned).
in my dictionary, it is ar RAYED--but some syllable counters say it has three syllables.
However, regardless of this aspect, I do feel that line needs work--the phrasing sounds odd read aloud,and the SHE and HER are enigmatic--are you personifying beauty that's been arrayed?
I will take another look and add at least one star. I amy not be able to follow up a fourth time as I don't have as much time as usual for FS these days. But in a week or so, if you've made many edits to this work,feel free to let me know and I'll try to follow up.
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Dont worry about the stars...ar-is prefix...ray-is root...ed-is suffix
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It sounds very odd to read that word aloud as three syllables. Ar-rayed is how it sounds to my ear--may be different diction.
:)
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She refers to the rose as I tend to think of the flower as feminine. The rose in turn resembles the past love but also reflects the saviour Jesus Christ in his life here in human nature.
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sounding maybe but technically yes.
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:)
Comment from Lincoln's Black Dog
I love your rhyme scheme. "abab caca dcdc ee" very interesting. I'm curious as to why you wrote this poem in a sonnet format but did not leave a space between quatrains as well as the rhyming couplet. Possibly to represent the layered nature of a rose (not segmented).
Hopen is not a word I have ever come across. Is this you using your poetic license or does it have a meaning that I am not aware of?
The poem is purposefully baffling (like the layers of a rose) but possibly too much so. I lost the meaning of the poem in the last six lines.
I love your diction and interesting syntax. Please could you give me a hint as to what the last six lines refer too.
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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I love your rhyme scheme. "abab caca dcdc ee" very interesting. I'm curious as to why you wrote this poem in a sonnet format but did not leave a space between quatrains as well as the rhyming couplet. Possibly to represent the layered nature of a rose (not segmented).
Hopen is not a word I have ever come across. Is this you using your poetic license or does it have a meaning that I am not aware of?
The poem is purposefully baffling (like the layers of a rose) but possibly too much so. I lost the meaning of the poem in the last six lines.
I love your diction and interesting syntax. Please could you give me a hint as to what the last six lines refer too.
Comment Written 09-Sep-2011
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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The rhyme scheme as far as I can see is abab, cdcd, efef, gg. Maybe Im not half as dyslexic as I think I am.
Hopen is a word that refers to a curse, hoping against hope as it were in the ENGLISH OXFORD DICTIONARY...try checking it.
Her life is full, short,hopen cursed rose, etc...
This I believe to be the Volta or turn and there the poem leaves the dimensions of this world and goes to another...
p.s. whatever that stands for...I like my sonnet closed as it were. I did not realise that it had to be seperated. Honestly. Maybe you would like to explain why it has to be seperated. Thats always puzzeled me...after all your doing english literature. I have hardly study since I left school.
If you concur with my arrangement I will happily divulge the last six lines in the Authors perception of his own poem..ta..da..
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It's sad that you didn't realize that your rhyme scheme is so interesting. Perhaps you should double check what I'm saying when I say it is an abab caca dcdc ee rhyme scheme. If the rhyme sound "ace" is "a" and it reoccurs later on then it doesn't change to a "d" - it stays an "a". I hope that makes sense.
There is no need to be patronizing about your precious "hopen". I looked it up on a few on line dictionaries and nothing came up. I was merely inquiring about its meaning.
If it is seperated it makes it slightly easier to read. In poetry nothing is set in stone. I wasn't saying that should separate your quatrains. I was just asking why it was that you didn't.
I'm not sure why you are so defensive when I was only trying to get a better feel for your poem.
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Right my friend ...here goes...my brain does not tick like other peoples. I found it a major struggle getting the little knowledge I have already and normally I work on sounding like slant rhyme, this sonnet was a bit of an adventure. What I have found is that the diction of some is totally different from what I have learned and others are the same. Dont worry about the patronizing aspect that was sarcasm. I actually was interested in your understanding of why you thought it strange for it to be closed. For me personaly I like this one closed. No big deal.
As to the understanding of this poem the inspiration was that of an old love that I had...it went sour. I was later converted to christianity, hence the religious overtones. The poem starts as a reflection on my past love and compares her to the rose. The tail of the rose is the scheming and hurt portrayed. It represents the loss and suffering that had to be endured. In one sense it is a reflection on her part then on mine. However, the turn is that hopen, hope against hope, new love springs again. At this point the reflection is Christ and him alone. The lines from this point compare him in his bearing of sin and wrath for me personally. They tell of the 10 commandements being fulfilled in his human nature to perfection and yet he suffered death for by rebellion against them. Hence his Fathers blows. He submitted willingly and took all for me so that I do not have to bare it and in doing this perfect work from his life to his death he has consumated a work unparrallel to anything that has ever been done for a soul. Hence his work..is..shall...cannot...be broken, though hell decsend on me.
Sorry my friend the reason I was probably a bit rough with you was someone else is having a major debat about scansion with me.
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Thanks for clearing that up. It's a great poem. Extremely intricate and loaded with symbolism.
I hope you sort out the debate about scansion.
Thanks again for the detailed reply.
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Lincon your quite right about the rhyme scheme...sometimes I do think I`m a bit dyslexic.
I`ve changed it to a sonnet (of sorts) as it now does not fit the category of the traditional english sonnet. Thank you for the advice and detailed report.
I was wondering could you do a scan of its scansion and let me know if it is iambic even if it is a bit stressed.
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In all honest I really don't have much of a clue when it comes to scansion. I'm glad you are exhibiting your unique rhyme scheme under author notes. It really adds to your poem. I struggle with metre. I normally use which ever rhythm comes naturally. I will research scansion and metre fully over the next week and then get back to you.
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Cheers Lincoln...much appreciated...look forward to the debate.
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Lincoln how the scansion study...very interesting suject...adverb...verb...if you get my drift. I think I`ve got it sussed...maybe you would like to take a look at my sonnet again at your leisure and see the difference.
Comment from Chris Tee
This is an absolutely gorgeous piece of poetry you have composed here old sport.
It is a rather splendid English sonnet we have here old boy
Well done indeed with this work my dear fellow.
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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This is an absolutely gorgeous piece of poetry you have composed here old sport.
It is a rather splendid English sonnet we have here old boy
Well done indeed with this work my dear fellow.
Comment Written 09-Sep-2011
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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Cheers my dear.
Comment from Espresso momma
Roses just have so much meaning don't they? Your poem is great to show that. Thanks for the great poem, I think Roses had to be God's favorite flower, don't you?
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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Roses just have so much meaning don't they? Your poem is great to show that. Thanks for the great poem, I think Roses had to be God's favorite flower, don't you?
Comment Written 09-Sep-2011
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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They certainy are...hence the rose of Sharon.
Comment from MeghanMatthews52985
In the author's notes you said that it's based on the thought of an old flame; that it describes greater love. I just didn't get that out of what I read at first. If I didn't read the author's notes I never would have known. Also, I don't quite understand the two lines that start with "Sharp". I think that it may be too complicated.
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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In the author's notes you said that it's based on the thought of an old flame; that it describes greater love. I just didn't get that out of what I read at first. If I didn't read the author's notes I never would have known. Also, I don't quite understand the two lines that start with "Sharp". I think that it may be too complicated.
Comment Written 09-Sep-2011
reply by the author on 09-Sep-2011
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The two lines with sharp are the descriptin in my eyes of 1)my old flame and her love gone sour but still lingering 2)somehow maybe she will understand in time like I had to the hurt that our break up caused. It based on a carnal love melting into a spiritual love
... there is such a thing...