Comment from write hand blue

Excellent

Hi G, great advice to the writer. Applicable to just about all genres. These details when incorporated into the text can make all the difference to the finished story. We writers must take notice of these tips so generously provided by you. I thank you. ~Mel~

 Comment Written 29-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 30-Jul-2022

Many thanks, Mel. G

Comment from Spitfire

Excellent

This makes me realize once again how much preplanning has to be done before a writer can even begin. It might help the novice to look at a best-selling novel and analyze the structure that you have laid out. If not a book, a movie might suffice.

 Comment Written 28-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 30-Jul-2022

Or you can just wing it! lol G

Comment from lyenochka

Excellent

Thanks again for mentoring the writers here in how to plan out our writing. I had to chuckle at the "raging rhino" comment. I usually am not in a hurry to get all my plot points. I think I have more of a problem with digression due to wanting to achieve multiple goals i.e., educational fiction for kids. The story should follow all the elements you covered but along the way, I want some bread crumbs of actual facts. Do you have any advice for how to achieve writing on multiple levels?

 Comment Written 28-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 30-Jul-2022

That's what they used to call me when I played rugby - raging rhino. I'm short but big. lol

Weaving in the breadcrumbs takes care. if you make it too obvious, it telegraphs things. If you get it right, people realise it was there all along, but not right in the face.

You need to sort out your themes early on. What do i want to achieve with this. You have an overarching plot but the breadcrumbs can come in those quieter moments, when someone says or does something that doesn't draw too much attention but gives an added layer.

Sometimes that can be a look or an agenda that someone is working on, beyond the main thrust.

One way to do it is to map out the character arc of not just the main player but the supporting cast. Once you know what their motivations and thrusts are you can craft a piece that knits together very well, always remembering the story seed.

All the best
G
G

reply by lyenochka on 30-Jul-2022

Thanks, Gareth! That makes perfect sense! By the way a "raging rhino" has got to be the opposite of a gentle giraffe. 🦒🦏😂

Comment from the13thpoet

Excellent

Hello Giraffmang a good day to you. I hope this finds you well. I just appreciate and love all of the helpful hints, tips, and tricks. I'm sure anyone reading can find at least one helpful thing in here. Thanks for sharing and a willingness to help and improve your fellow writers, it's much appreciated!

 Comment Written 28-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 30-Jul-2022

Much appreciated, my friend. G

Comment from davisr (Rhonda)

Exceptional

Thank you for the summary of writing, G. It is a good guide to keep with you when developing a storyline, no matter what the genre. I see this as a back pocket pamphlet for writers of all stages of maturity. Thank you for putting it together.

Take care, my friend,
Rhonda

 Comment Written 27-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 30-Jul-2022

Many thanks, Rhonda. Good to see you again. G

reply by davisr (Rhonda) on 30-Jul-2022

Thank you, G. It's good to be back among friends.

Comment from estory

Excellent

Great essay. Clear, concise, well laid out, professionally done. I think you should teach a class here. For people learning this short story craft, I think you have loads to impart. Following the guide lines can make the difference between good and great. estory

 Comment Written 27-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 30-Jul-2022

Much appreciated, as always. G

Comment from Carol Hillebrenner

Excellent

This is an excellent article about how to build a story. You might consider doing one on show, not tell, which was the lesson I was slowest at learning. With an article this full of information, you might find a market for it in the writing sites or magazines. I only spotted two nits: "make (it) a visceral . . ." and "much high(er) degree.

 Comment Written 26-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 27-Jul-2022

I did a whole series on show, don't tell this year. It's probably all still in my portfolio. lol Much appreciated. G

reply by Carol Hillebrenner on 27-Jul-2022

I will look for it.

reply by Carol Hillebrenner on 27-Jul-2022

I will look for it.

Comment from GARY MACLEAN

Average

First of all, "pantsers" is a really interesting term I had not heard before. I guess I can sometimes be a 'pantser,' but not often. I learned something right away from your article, very valuable.

Several observations:

Para 1, 7th sentence: Add (the) between (be) and (starting)
At Main Character: (character) vs (them) singular vs plural
At SETTING: Need paragraph space after (everything up.)
At PREDICAMENT: same). should be same.) Inside Parenthesis
At PREDICAMENT: SUGGEST changing [same). It] to [same), it]
At PREDICAMENT: Need paragraph space after (better choice.)
At PREDICAMENT: 10th sentence: Add (what) between (ensure) and (you)

At 2, 4th sentence: Add (a) between (have) and (great)
At 2, Para 7, 3rd sentence: Need paragraph space after (teamwork.)
At 2, Para 8, 5th sentence: (other) should be (others)

At 3, Para 4, 1st sentence: SHOULD (god) be (God)
At 3, Para 5, 3rd sentence: Add (up) between (end) and (becoming)

At BUILDING A TOWN: Line 1. (I) should be (is)
At LOCATION: (His) switches from 1st person to 2nd person. SUGGEST (The) instead of (His)
At CLIMATE: Change (climate offer) to either (climates offer) or (climate offers)
At CLIMATE: (shape) should be (shapes) and (artic) should be (arctic)
At GOVERNANCE: 3rd Sentence: (Answer) should be (Answers) and why)? should be why?)
At CULTURE: 3rd sentence: etc). should be etc.) Punctuation inside Parenthesis. Also need paragraph space after (etc).

At 4. WHAT HAPPENS?: 4th sentence: Double punctuation. pantsers!). should be pantsers!) without the additional period.

At WHAT HAPPENS: (1 - Act 1 :) Remove extra space between (1 and :) This occurs in the next couple of discussions as well. A colon, as all punctuation, should follow immediately after the end of the phrase or sentence, no spaces between it and the end.

At 5 - Act 111 : Remove extra space between (moment) and (in)
At 5 - Act 111 : You begin this discussion by capitalizing the (T) in (The). None of the other discussions are capitalized. Change either this (T) or all the first letters in the others.

At WHAT HAPPENS: last paragraph (seven act) should be (seven-act)

Wow, a tremendous number of valuable tips and suggestions. I find it difficult at times to write fiction, these pointers will indeed help me on my way. If I were rating based solely on value of content my rating would be different, but the many observations noted yield the low rating.

I apologize, I just read your interview with Terry and I was anxious to read some of your stuff. The interview was spot on, and your material is great, useful and practical. But I can't rate it any higher than I did. And I know this article will garner many fives and several sixes but then are they really reviewing structure and grammar? It's as confusing to me as it is to you or anyone else. Anyway, great article, I wish I could have been more generous.








This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.

 Comment Written 26-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 27-Jul-2022

Hi Gary,

Many thanks for the review. And people accuse me of being pedantic! Having worked for a publisher, I know that a lot of what you've identified here would be classed as minor and easily sorted. A few return keystrokes for example.

I'm not quibbling with the rating. From your perspective it's fair enough and I don't argue with that. So what follows is some clarification on a couple of points which you might find helpful going forward.

I feel that as a reviewer it is important that the information I am giving the writer needs to be correct. Also, if I'm identifying an edit, I make sure it's in the right spot. A few times here I had difficulty because the edit was incorrectly identified. I usually copy and paste a longer part of the sentence so it's easier to identify for the writer.

There were a couple of things I had issues with in regard to the punctuation around brackets and perspective narrative. A lot of this depends on what 'style manual' folk use and the sentence purpose and structure. If the punctuation applies to the bracketed statement only, then there should still be punctuation following them as only the inside statement is closed off, not the entire sentence.

The bit where you pointed out the first person to second person is incorrect. the His (which should have been The) is actually third person, which you don't mention at all. There is no shift, second person (you) isn't employed in that paragraph at all.

The term god shouldn't be capitalised as it's 'a god'.

Also, the pronoun of they/them is perfectly acceptable to be used with character. Even before the waters became muddied by gender politics, when you don't know the sex they or them are used.

I thank you for the review and the time you invested in it.

One last thing I would say is that I would be careful with your wording in some areas. I had read the review you gave Terry's interviews and it did come across as if you were coming to my work with an in-built agenda before you'd actually read a word of it. Other writers had messaged me with the same feeling. Yep, that's how this place works! lol

All the best
GMG

reply by GARY MACLEAN on 27-Jul-2022

Firstly, I enjoyed your article, and I learned a great deal from it. I will use some of your pointers when I once again try my hand at writing, particularly fiction.

But, although it may seem like it, I really didn't go into the article with a chip on my shoulder. It's just that Terry spoke so highly of you and the interview was so thorough and well presented, that I just told myself I had to go see for myself.

My intention was simply to conduct the type of review I usually do. Pedantic perhaps, but why not bring something to someone's attention if that's why I am reviewing in the first place?

Yes, many of my observations are easily fixed, but they were legitimate observations. I wrote a book in 1993 for the ASQC. They returned my manuscript with the promise of a publishing contract if I were to address the "observations" they had made. Believe me, they included everything; extra spaces, spelling, grammar, misplaced punctuation, parenthesis misplaced, everything. Perhaps that one experience kick started me on my own "eagle eye" reviewing trek. I made every single correction, got published and that is my one claim to "best seller" fame.

I admit, it is always difficult to identify where an observation lies within the work. There are so many techniques and methods used to write that I can't adhere to one pat method. I usually try to point out the paragraph and the sentence where the observation appears. But even that is difficult at times. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough on the location of the observation. Perhaps the copy and paste method would serve me better. We will see.

I do, admittedly, have problems with 1st, 2nd and 3rd person narrative. I often get them mixed up; this may have been one of those cases. I just know the one I pointed out did not read smoothly for me.

I have a tendency to try to capitalize "God" in all instances. It may be that it is not required at times, but I have yet to discover those times.

I understand your position on "they/them", and I agree it is perfectly permissible to do so, it's just that in this case that approach was used only once, and it seemed to stand out.

I was afraid my review on Terry's piece may lead to problems, particularly the response I gave him. I should have been more sensitive. But please believe me, I did not go to your article with an agenda. I have had that done to me on one article and only one time. It is difficult to justify. Like I say, I went to your randomly chosen article in the same manner I would have anyone else's.

I put a great value on the reviewing process. I think that is the only place any writer on FS can have the opportunity to improve. So, I point out every single thing I see, in hopes the author may take note and either correct or not. But at least I have done my part.

In addition, I expect the same approach to my articles, but I don't think that always happens. I relish the fives and sixes but if my article doesn't deserve it then please don't award it and tell me why it wasn't awarded.

There are several articles that I have rated three or four when everyone else rates five or six. I don't understand how they are helping the author by ignoring necessary corrections.

Your response, this one right here, to my review of your article is perhaps the best response I have ever gotten. I have even suggested to FS that they should incorporate a "Review Process" for reviews. I read some of the reviews on articles I rate just to get an idea of what others are thinking and I am baffled.

I try to diligently stick to FS six step guidelines with a few quantitative rules added in for me to follow. Consistency is the key to good reviewing. If we can't be consistent, then we really aren't doing our job.

I have considered writing an article on reviewing, it looks like I just did, but there is so much more to it than what I have just discussed with you.

I intentionally review and rate on presentation over content. I have no right to rate someone else's opinion. I just reviewed and rated five-stars, an article that directly slammed Trump. I am a true Trumpster. Simply because this author was not, is no excuse for my down rating him. The article was well written even though I didn't agree with it. So, he deserved the five-stars.

I certainly do not want to foment any hard feelings with any writer on FS but I must still hold true to the reviewing process. I have to acknowledge FS guidelines and I need to recognize my own abilities and short comings at the same time. As time goes on, I know I will develop, and I hope I will have helped some of the authors on here improve their craft at the same time.

Best to you GMG, write on.

Gary M

Comment from K. Lang-Slattery

Excellent

As usual, I got a lot of help and information from your essay on story structure and the explanations of character, local, and plot. In fact I took some note as I read to help me set up the structure of a new novel I plan to start soon.

You do have a tendency to sometimes leave out an article (a, the, etc.) which would make the writing clearer. There may be more than the 3 I've listed below.... I decided to stop looking and just read for content.
. The story seed can also be (a) starting point even if the story itself is not fully-fledged.
. "this central idea can be returned to as often as needed to ensure (what) you are doing serves the original idea."
. "then you have (a) great bond which you can exploit."

 Comment Written 26-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 27-Jul-2022

Many thanks.

Comment from Wayne Fowler

Exceptional

You have taught me. Thank you.
"There is a tendency in fantasy and sci-fi to populate worlds with fantastical beasts, aliens or whatever. It's important to rein this in somewhat." - Amen! Thank you. I've quit books and stories that wear me out with creatures that I can't keep separate, or remember.
Yay! You have given me the answer that should have been simple - Define 'plot'. - a story that tells a tale with a beginning (or set up) conflict, and a resolution. Maybe you didn't say it in so many words, but that's what i heard. Thank you.
Hah! Then I came to this - "The traditional 3 Act Structure is defined as a story..." where you just came out and said it. I feel like an idiot, but I'm not going to rewrite this review.

 Comment Written 26-Jul-2022

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reply by the author on 27-Jul-2022

lol. I hate it when that happens in reviewing. Many thanks for the great response Wayne. G