RE: Just saying... again!
Message edited:
Fair enough. You don't understand that percentages of population tell you very little, so you imagine the whole of the UK is homogenous. London is actually, percentage-wise, the second most diverse city in the world, but we'll leave that point. Let's say we have both spoken of things we don't know anything about other than TV and statistics. There are enough people in your country who don't agree with your perspective. One of them is on this thread. I don't think there's much point in you and I continuing this discussion, since it's from a standing point of you thinking there's no value in what I say because I don't know what I am talking about. The funny thing is, your videos have been disturbing and educative, but it's still the TV you tell me I am not supposed to be believing. How is that different to the documentaries with actual footage of some of your diverse population, not just middle class whites, begging, BEGGING for legislation? I could do a video tit for tat, but I don't really think that gets us anywhere, do you? Oddly, I get the feeling that if I agreed 100% with you, where I come from and what I know wouldn't bother you so much, but I do take your point. Hopefully, Bill will chip in again. He is at least from the right country, and it might result in a productive discussion that isn't based on telling eachother what we don't know and don't understand. I shall read with interest, but I have said all I have to say.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 87
Short Works Rating
Rank: 18
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 2
Review Stars
Rank: 52
RE: Just saying... again!
You are correct, people will see things there way. As for people in my country wanting more gun control, yes there are some, but what I try to get people to understand, is it's easy to say, ban guns. But, the criminal element don't follow laws now. And the Supreme Court has already ruled, the police have no duty to protect you.
I look at guns like insurance. It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
But, yes Bill believes what he does, and I am on the other side. I don't live where he lives and he doesn't live where I do. Fortunately, the courts, laws, and constitution are on my side. At least for now.
Peace to you all.
RE: Just saying... again!
What Lancellot does not realise is that his argument of "you're speaking from ignorance" is actually just shooting himself in the foot (a not inappropriate metaphor).
I presume, Lancellot, you've never lived in a country that didn't have a gun death rate 5-50 times that of any other civilised nation. When were you last in a nation where guns were not a leading cause of death (now THE leading cause of death) of school-age children? (A pretty easy definition to pin down, by the way). Have you ever resided somewhere where the government didn't make it as easy as they possibly could for criminals to obtain guns? Do you know what it's like to live in a place where the interval between mass shootings is not measured in hours, but in decades? Where you can send your kids to school with the reasonable expectation they'll return a few hours later, and won't have spent their precious learning time rehearsing active shooter drills?
Yet you can confidently say that every single one of the nations that are successfully handling the issue of gun violence and providing (relatively) safe communities for their citizens have got it all wrong. That there is nothing in their experience that could possibly benefit your citizens or lawmakers.
Because past experience shows you've got it all so right.
For me, one of those videos you posted sums it up perfectly. Six and a half thousand miles away, people are murdering each other over a piece of land scarcely as big as a decent-sized city, in a dispute that's been going on for decades. As a result, Americans in Southern Florida prepare to start killing each other. I guess this is what we should expect from a state where books are banned and guns worshipped.
It's the understatement of the century to say America has a gun problem.
So what's the answer? More guns.
Yep, that'll fix it, alright.
The gun lobby loves to blame, as Emma has pointed out, all the mayhem and carnage on mental illness.
There is one thing anyone who is inclined to listen to them really should bear in mind:
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 87
Short Works Rating
Rank: 18
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 2
Review Stars
Rank: 52
RE: Just saying... again!
CD, who is expecting different results? I didn't start this thread. You've never seen me, write or argue about too many gun deaths in America. Or how can we stop them?
Let's be honest here. Out of all the Americans on FanStory (and there are so many), how many have you seen writing about the gun violence or banning guns in any nation, in the forums.
Be honest. How many? Then compare that tiny number (one or two) with non-Americans writing about guns in America.
Really?
RE: Just saying... again!
Message edited:
My gosh, Lancellot, you're right!
I've never seen you write about too many gun deaths in America, or express any interest in stopping them. What a ridiculous assumption on my part that you would care. How silly of me.
So, just to be clear... Do you think 48,830 dead Americans due to firearms in one year is just about right, or would you prefer if the figure was higher?
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 87
Short Works Rating
Rank: 18
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 2
Review Stars
Rank: 52
RE: Just saying... again!
LOL, oh it's one of them gotcha questions.
Fine, I wish I lived in a world where there were zero crime, no need for weapons, no need for locked doors, police, or armies. I wish the Earth was a paradise.
But it's not. The world is neither kind nor fair, with or without humans.
Now, do I wish for a world where no died? NO! That would be a living hell. Just as immortality would be.
Nature strives for balance. This isn't what people want to hear, but it simply is. The strong survive, and the weak do not. And sometimes even that isn't true. Like I said, the world is neither fair nor kind.
There are predators and there are protectors. I understand this. I also understand guns as all weapons are force enhancers. They represent a significant power upgrade to the individual.
Evil men, bad people, will always seek power and then use that power upon others. This is a fact of the world.
If you try to ban guns. Those who crave power will find a way to acquire them, even if they have to build guns themselves. Which even I can do. Yes, I seen inmates in Prison build crude firearms.
The US half learned a valuable lesson decades ago when they amended the Constitution to prohibit alcohol. That was a historic failure and caused massive unforeseen (or un-listened to) problems for the nation. Basically, that amendment cause more problems than it solved, which is why it was repealed.
Yes, the people (mostly females) who fought for banning alcohol had the best of intentions, and their hearts may have been in the right place. But they did not understand (or want to understand) the fundamental nature of man, or Americans.
I don't think CD, Bill, or anyone on this thread has their opinions out of malice. I think you all want what you believe is best for people. I simply disagree with your methods and where you place the fault.
In America, a gun is like a Geni. It is out of the bottle, and it will not go back in.
RE: Just saying... again!
Ok, ok, I know I said I wouldn't, but can't resist.
You are absolutely right, Lance, to point to the nature of man. But let's face it, the ultimate extrapolation of that argument, is 'why bother having laws at all?'. Just about every law there is and has ever been gets broken by someone, because that's human nature. So you pick your battles, sure, and prohibition wasn't a good one, and yet 'prohibition' style laws exist for plenty of other drugs. A genuine question there is to ask how you feel about the legalisation about every substance currently illegal in your country? Prohibition is still alive and well, it just doesn't apply to booze.
For me, it isn't a question of claiming the 'fault' lies with guns alone. It's a question of damage limitation. Like most laws we have, of course criminals will break them, but what reduces the behaviour (as opposed to just saying, 'OK, everyone get on with it, survival.of the fittest') is that it's HARDER to do. It's more expensive, or it takes more time. Sure, you can make a gun, but so what?
You can make methamphetamine, but you can bet that the number of people who might be interested in trying the drug aren't going to bother if they have to make it. So you have already prevented more people from taking the drug than you would if you just sold it in the shop.
As an inveterate smoker, I have observed the huge difference smoking bans in public places have made, not so much on my generation, but on the kids. I was 14 when I started. I see kids all the time of that age walk past our house. The school I work in is in a deprived area. When I was growing up, the majority would be smoking behind the bike sheds, on the way to school. They aren't now. Something that was once so ubiquitous just 34 years ago has spectacularly dropped. We just had to give it a generation.
If you expect instant results from gun legislation, you won't get it. It might get worse before it gets better, because you are spot on about genies and bottles. But you don't change mentalities overnight. But it WOULD change.
It's whether the cost in the now is worth the gain in the future. But it's a catch 22, because if nobody pays the price of changes now, everyone continues to pay the price in the future, and, as you have already learned with your present gun situation, it gets higher and higher, worse and worse.
Is it really too late now? Is it checkmate? If it is, if it has gone too far, heaven help you all. It will get to the point when the strongest now get weaker and weaker, and the last man standing is holding a bazooka and staring round him wondering what the point is in being the strongest of precisely nobody.
RE: Just saying... again!
It's also worth noting, when it comes to prohibition that whilst what was done 100 years ago was largely viewed as a disaster, today, the fact that happened means your nation has a very different attitude to alcohol than mine, and believe me, that's a good thing.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 87
Short Works Rating
Rank: 18
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 2
Review Stars
Rank: 52
RE: Just saying... again!
I hear you Scarbreams. But... even though you've said, and I keep saying it. You and others on this thread, (not Bill) continue to miss the point.
"If you expect instant results from gun legislation, you won't get it. It might get worse before it gets better, because you are spot on about genies and bottles"
-Yes, I agree. It would get worse before it 'possibly' gets better. But, not for you. It will get worse us here. Those of us who would have to deaal with it for real and not in theory or on TV.
-Yes, I agree. It would get worse before it 'possibly' gets better. But, not for you. It will get worse us here. Those of us who would have to deaal with it for real and not in theory or on TV.
"It's whether the cost in the now is worth the gain in the future. But it's a catch 22, because if "nobody pays the price of changes now", everyone continues to pay the price in the future, and, as you have already learned with your present gun situation, it gets higher and higher, worse and worse.
-Again, the cost will not be paid by YOU. It will be payed by ME, or My wife, or MY SON. The somebody who pays the price for change, will not be you or people Austraila, or New Zealand, or the UK. The people who will pay the cost is: ME and other Americans. So, it is up to us to determine if we want to pay that cost. It is our safety, our lives, our freedoms, and for GOD's sake.... IT is our choice.
You don't have to agree with it, or like it... and I'm not trying to be mean, but at the end of the day... What people outside of the US think, want, or believe is wothless.
With that said, I will leave this thread now.
People in other countries can continue to throw shade on America to their heart's content.
RE: Just saying... again!
Message edited:
Finally, we get to the bottom line. I really don't know why you persist in this farce about wanting what's best for America, Lancellot, other than it's your way of hiding your real agenda, which is pushing what you think is best for you, regardless of the cost to anyone else.
You made that clear above when you so rightly pointed out that you've not once said that ludicrous numbers of people dying to maintain your imagined safety is unacceptable. You don't care that possessing a gun make those in your household nearly three times more likely to die by being shot than those who live in a house without one. And you don't care how many other Americans die in order to maintain your delusion of being a "protector".
While you're busy being wrong about everything else, you might as well be wrong about nature too. It's not the strong who survive, it's the intelligent, and those who evolve. Brains almost always wins over brawn. And those with brains realise "more guns for everyone" is a game no one wins. They've evolved from the cowboy mentality of decades gone by. They look around them and they see the way the world is. They see which nations are burying their dead in the millions thanks to firearm proliferation, and which are not.
Of course, providing you don't break any laws, you are within your rights to take the line that it doesn't matter how many are dying to protect your alleged "freedom"; that it is only your personal safety (imagined as it may be) that counts for anything. School children will continue to be mowed down in ridiculous numbers, but that's ok because you feel that you, and maybe your family, are somehow better off. Yep, you're perfectly entitled to not give a toss about others. Your wants, needs and "rights" make theirs irrelevant. By the way... who else thinks that way? Ponder it for a while, I'm sure you'll come up with the answer.
1 2 3 4 5 -6- 7
The FanStory Store For Writers
Get a mug, sweatshirt or tee customized with your poem! Yes, your poem on a Mug | Sweatshirt | Tee
Your Poem On A Mug
$24.95Any poem on a mug! Choose your mug here.