Messages

Intolerance in the UK

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Have Liberals gone too far?

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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lance, are you fricking kidding me??
'Liberals' gone too far?? From the message/spirit of this video?? Gimme a freaking break!

Which political group/ideology is way more likely to censor free speech/expression--liberals or obviously conservatives?

In that video, Rowan Atkinson, our adorably beloved 'Mr. Bean', cited two liberals, Barack Obama and Salmon Rushdie, to support his claims/arguments.
So, how are you flipping the fault on liberals?

There is a certain very recent American president who goes verbally berserk, slurring and insulting, against any and all who say things against him, his policies or simply that he doesn't like.
His last name rhymes with chump and dump, and he's infamous for his attacks against those whom he perceives speak negatively about him.
He is definitely not liberal, but is actually the totem pole/beacon/champion of conservatives.

In truth/essence, Rowan Atkinson's video here is really against hyper-sensitive 'conservative' attitudes that stifle free speech/expression.

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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What? Go, I'm not sure if you're trolling or serious.

He states in the speech, that he is speaking to liberals. And so was Obama, in the speech to Liberal college kids at their graduation, that Rowan referenced. The same thing JK Rowling has recently referenced about Scotland's Gender recognition law, and jailing people for "offensive" speech to protected groups. The same thing that Elon Musk is speaking about after A UK Chief of police publicly threatened to charge and extradite people from other countries for their speech online.

I guess Kiwi was right. We don't pay enough attention to what happens in other countries.

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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My bad, lance.
My point is that it is 'conservative-ish' thinking/attitude not to allow free speech/expression, whether such thinking/attitude comes from officially identified liberals or conservatives.

In the video, Rowan mentions three specific cases:
1. A man arrested for calling a police horse gay (LMFAO!)
2. A teenager arrested for saying that the church of scientology is a cult.
3. A cafe owner was arrested for displaying Bible passaes on a TV sreen.
(My goodness, don't we have better/truly pressing matters to be worried about?)
In all these cases, whether liberals or conservatives were upset by the happenings, they need to chill out and get a life. These are not serious issues worth alam over.

So what if a horse is called gay? (LOL)
So what if a church/organization is called a cult? (Here, depending on externuating circumstances, though)
And so what if a shop owner is playing Buble scenes/passages on 'his/her' TV screen? It's their fricking TV, ain't it?

Liberals and/or conservatives having any problems with those should pipe down and watch international news on REAL problems in the world.

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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My point is that it is 'conservative-ish' thinking/attitude not to allow free speech/expression, whether such thinking/attitude comes from officially identified liberals or conservatives.

Now, I do think you're trolling. No way, you don't know what has been happening in universities all across America. No way, you haven't heard about the woke going too far with PC police, censoring speech, and wanting to do away with the first amendment. No way you haven't heard or seen the push back from, not just politicians, journalist, academics, just also comedians, saying they will no longer perform on campuses. You didn't see Jerry Seinfeld's interviews, or JK Rowlings, or Any of the things going on from the left? You didn't see Obama's speech or the pushback he got?

HOW???

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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Intolerance to free speech/expression, except in slanderous/libelous/defamatory circumstances, by any persons/groups, liberal or conservative, should not be acceptable.
Distastefulness/unpleasantness are not crimes.

There was a time, not too long ago, and still among some groups today, where one couldn't freely speak ill of/in opposition to the royal family/the monarchy.
There are places where speaking ill of/opposing the government will get one arrested/in trouble.
There are societies with staunch social hierarchies/classes/castes where it is nigh impossible to move up the social ladder from one's 'allotted' position.
There are places where some feel a sense of racial, ethnic and socio-economic superiority to others.
These are all examples of 'conservative' values, beliefs, attitudes and ideologies--not liberal--where speech/expression against any of these traditions would be frowned upon and suppressed.

Again, my point is, liberal and/or conservative intolerance of free speech/expression should not be accepted/validated.
It is not being liberal or conservative that matters, but 'the issues' at hand being analyzed.

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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Sorry lance, I don't mean to hijack your thread/topic, but I would like someone from the U.K., or someone very familiar with the current ethnic tensions there, to explain to me whether the claims in the video below are true, and whether these claims/issues are as bothersome/problematic as depicted.
Why is the U.K. officially celebrating another country's independence day? Or is that not the case?

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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Well, nice of you to show an interest, Lance, but heaven only knows where you dug up that piece of blatant nonsense from.
In the first instance, Rowan Atkinson is a renowned media recluse. He doesn't even do proper interviews these days, let alone this sort of hooey. If it had been John Cheese, now...
Nobody has been arrested for calling a horse gay. We've been over this before, how the hate crime laws actually work as opposed to people who know nothing about it thinks it works. And I promise you, our massively overstretched police force are not arresting people because they called a horse gay. But I think you know that.
GoWst, I don't know about the celebrations you mentioned, but in this free country, yes, we do allow people from elsewhere to celebrate events that are important to them. It's not 'official', we don't have public holidays or anything like that, but we aren't the sort of Draconian regime that forbids anything other than cheering the red, white and blue.

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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Incidentally, I have written before about Partition, but if you'd like to know more about the creation of Pakistan and why it might have a little bit of something to do with the UK, you can look it up. It makes very interesting reading.
I know Lance likes to think we live in some sort of present tense vacuum, where nothing we do in the past has any bearing on what is happening today and we don't owe anybody anything or have any responsibility for anything that we caused to happen in the (not very) distant past, but the existence of Pakistan is a direct result of our interference.
It would be a bit of a cheek if we didn't allow those with Pakistani origins to celebrate it, really.

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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Thanks for your response, Scar.

How widespread is this allowance/tolerance of celebrations for Pakistani (or any other nation's) independence?
Are roads, villages or towns closed down/off for it?
Are non-Pakistani residents compelled to be significantly affected by these celebrations?
Are other (Western nation) ethnicities also afforded such cultural/national celebrations?
In general, how do these celebrations impact the non-Pakistani residents of those communities and the U.K. at large?

RE: Intolerance in the UK

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In answer to your last question, very little, outside of London. I used to work years ago in a city with a very large Pakistani population and never heard anything about it.
There's a Pakistani population where I am now, and haven't heard anything of it either.

In London, roads get closed for all sorts of things. Celebrations, protests, coronations, etc, but in this instance, as with the Notting Hill Carnival, or St Patrick's day, the whole of London doesn't grind to a halt, it will be in a particular area.

Whole villages in England can get closed off for plenty of very English celebrations. Bonfire nights, carnivals, street parties, scarecrow weeks, cheese-rolling. Probably not Pakistani independence, because our rural areas aren't very diverse. And to be fair, you don't get EDL louts protesting in huge numbers at someone having the temerity to bung a few cheeses down a hill.

Think about it like this: America makes a big deal out of St Patrick's day. Whole streets get closed for that, don't they? Other than having an Irish diaspora, why is this celebrated there?
It's not even that big in actual Ireland.

Other cultures have their own celebrations in the UK. It's not made a big deal about by the GB news types who brought you that video, though, because we only care when Muslims are involved. Nobody gives a shit when the Chinese or Jewish quarters are closed off for cultural celebrations.